Permaculture Database

[Supaiku]

This may be ever so slightly off topic, I'm just not quite sure where it should go. (If there's a more suitable place, please help me move it, or suggest

I'm curious about whether or not anyone has heard of any kind of database (relational or otherwise) which holds (or aims to get) complete information on plants, animals, soil factors, watershed designs, and other permaculture design factors as well as the resources they create (since they're part of a system)

I'm talking pretty detailed: Stuff like which plants are nitrogen fixing, require what sort of temperatures, planting seasons, along with what animals are suitable for what plant classes and climates, water requirments, and even foods and their nutrients.

Just any information anyone can give me on existing databases that might include such information and/or be aiming for this kind of thing.

[Tezza]

Unfortunatly,I think the closet thing to your "Data" base has been Tried and Didnt happen....

I could be wrong tho..

We Experimented with a purpose built "Perma wiki" or our own (Permaculture wikipedia)..

The concept as far as i was concerned was ABSOLUTLY BRILLIANT... It Was Bread, before it became sliced bread....

One Trouble that put myself and a couple of other interested posters was,The Concept of "some one else"comming along and changing your hard earned thinking etc etc and skill,knowledges gained,and could be debunked by anyone whatsoever...

The thought of someone adding or removing willy nilly wasnt worth the horrible thoughts that ran thro my mind that could be changed,,,, Good or BAD ..

NOW if you take away that chance of !!!!!!!!!!! andmade it unchangable,Id be into that

Tezza

[purplepear]

Can it be that clynical? I imagine that, with microclimates and varations in soil conditions, much information of the type you are looking at can change within my own property and the effecacy of the information will be lost with those changes. It seems like a lot of work when, in the end, you will need to believe in your self and actually put your toe in the water to see what will apply to each situation.

I believe it is very important that we rely less on "hard facts" and get more involved in intuition and common sense.

[Fernando Pessoa]

I would agree feeding information into an AI computer works for set process like mixing paint ,but to do it to permaculture you are going to miss the little connections and thats what creates synergy in a system and stability.Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.So I dont think it would be a worth while thing.
Fernando Pessoa

[sun burn]

wiki permaculture is a great idea. Is it that easy to change the entries if its proper wiki. There's a forum for discussion if there's debate I understand.

[permup]

I have developed a database of my own, which I use and add to regularly. It helps me when suggesting plants for my clients. I have tags which identify where the species is indemic (if native), whether they are good bee fodder, whether they are koala food, what type of conditions they like, whether they are good for use in windbreaks, whether they can be used for animal fodder, whether they are good for human consumption etc etc. When I need to specify the right plant, I can plug in all the parameters I'm looking to fulfil, and I will usually get a list of good plants for the requirement. It has been a lot of hard work, but worth it I think.

So Supaiku, I think your idea is a good one, and I use mine regularly. One day it might be good enough to sell or make available on the net or on this forum, but not yet I think.

[Grahame]

Nice one Paula.

I reckon that the best databases throughout history have been communities. These databases are very local, very immediate and usually very appropriate to your climate

As pioneers of re-discovering all this knowledge I think one of our most important ways of building great databases for ourselves and for future generations is to build local permaculture communities.

Supaiku, I still think there are remnants of this sort of database out there, especially among 'migrant' communities. Find out who the old fashioned growers are in your area and try tapping them for information.

Grahame

[Supaiku]

I do think that communities make fantastic, resilient databases, I also think that computers facilitate larger communities and having handy ways to facilitate communication is a plus.

As for Computer AI:

• Databases are not AI but sorting mechanisms. Databases would still require humans to interpert information, and in fact input and decide what information to look for.

• Modeling and simulations are still too weak to handle massivly complex systems but when it comes to implimentation testing alternatives and outcomes can help make and increase confidence in decisions, and potential prevent negative affects. It's important to realize that the principals on which models work are based exclusivly on human observation, and are never assumed flawless. From what I understand there are two approaches to Permaculture: One is to stick only to mimicy local environment, the other is more engineering and may include non-native plants and more extreme changes in landscape. In the second approach you are esentially doing environmental engineering, and the effects can be intense - I don't think some extra thought would be undue.
• Computer Aided Design (CAD) can be coupled with modeling and simualations and can serve simply as a sort of design sandbox and tool. Really just a replacement for drawing a map. Though old school drafters sometimes resent computer replacement of pencils and straight edges you can do alot more with computers.

Of course, like all ideas, they're just ideas. Once you collect the information you of course have to use it. I'd be willing to debate the viability of computers, books, and written information (I'll even join the neg!) - but the permaculture forum isn't the place for that:p

For the record:
http://permaculture.info/index.php/Main_Page
I guess this will ultimately be where it'll all go down

[MoD]

Would love to have a Permdatabase online to use...

Found this one for picking trees. Works great and has tons of options to choose from.

http://selectree.calpoly.edu/attribute_search.lasso

D

[Supaiku]

Would love to have a Permdatabase online to use...

Found this one for picking trees. Works great and has tons of options to choose from.

http://selectree.calpoly.edu/attribute_search.lasso

D

That's really cool - thanks MoD.

Can anyone else give any links to databases? I'll edit the top thread and put them all up there with a description.