hi from wa

[chebs_dev]

Hello
just a quick note to introduce myself. I have had a long term interest in permaculture but have never done anything about it, mainly because i move around a lot and never owned my own house up to now.

I work FIFO, 4/1 weeks roster and never seem to be at home when an interesting course comes up. I am hoping someone can offer some advice on beginners online courses to do, to start on my journey to permaculture self suffiency.

thanks heaps

[ecodharmamark]

Hello
just a quick note to introduce myself. I have had a long term interest in permaculture but have never done anything about it, mainly because i move around a lot and never owned my own house up to now.

I work FIFO, 4/1 weeks roster and never seem to be at home when an interesting course comes up. I am hoping someone can offer some advice on beginners online courses to do, to start on my journey to permaculture self suffiency.

thanks heaps

G'day chebs_dev

Welcome to the PRI Forum.

You do not need to own a house in order to practice permaculture. Elements of permaculture can be practiced in any setting, at any time, by anyone.

Fly in, fly out? Do you work in the mining industry? Have you ever considered during all of the time that you have been interested in permaculture that your work (and your mode of commuting to it) may not fit very well with the ethics of permaculture?

In terms of 'online courses' and your 'journey to permaculture self-sufficiency', I do not believe that an online course can provide one with the high degree of cross-cultural, face-to-face learning experiences that one encounters whilst undertaking a '2-week intensive/residential' PDC. As such, I can not offer you any advice with regards to online courses. However, a book that I would like to recommend for you as a 'beginner' is: The Holistic Life.

Cheerio, and I genuinely wish you well on your journey, Marko.

[chebs_dev]

well, yes I have thought about it not fitting the permaculture "culture", but i really enjoy my work otherwise I would'nt do it. At home i have the chooks looking after the garden (the partner looking after the chooks), the work farm going, everything that can gets composted, even the dog poo has its own worm farm, greywater gets recycled, the fruit trees planted, and ride my pushbike or walk whereever i can.

Thank you for the book recommendation, i'll follow it up

[ecodharmamark]

G'day chebs_dev

Well, yes the work that you are doing at 'home' (sorry, I miss-read your first post and failed to see that you now actually 'own' a house) is a great thing. You have mentioned that you 'really enjoy' your work (and one can only presume that it is mining that you are referring to) and this is also a great thing - for you - but others will view it very differently.

Remote area mining (FIFO) has its detractors, and rightly so, as there are many practices involved with the process that could hardly be considered sustainable. When you 'thought about it not fitting the permaculture culture' (whatever that is is), I wonder if your thought process extended to the following:

Social - Does my work detract from or enhance the local, regional, state or national total frameworks for creating better social conditions?
Cultural - Does my work respect the cultural parameters of the traditional owners of the land/sea/sky in the area at which I work? What does it do, if anything, to enhance cultural values?
Economic - I certainly get paid well, but what about the people who own/live on the land? What economic benefits, if any, extend to them?
Environmental - Is the work I do 'world's best practice' (whatever that means), and ultimately, is the work I do adding to or detracting from the gross environmental sum of the biosphere?

Maybe, just maybe, the 'work' you are doing at 'home' including fruit trees, worm farms, composting, cycling - all very sustainable things in their own right - does in fact offset the ecological, social, and cultural destruction that your involvement with remote area mining produces - another great thing. But what about your employers? What are they doing to even up their 'account'?

I do not offer the above with the intention of insulting you. You have made it this far, and you are at least thinking about your wider actions. However I do offer the above as method of challenging you (indeed, all remote area mining workers) to further think about your line of work. None of us are perfect (well, maybe very few). I certainly don't fit into the category. I still continue to undertake some unsustainable practices in my daily life, but like you, I try and offset these with the implementation of sustainable systems that are slowly reversing my personal impact.

From page 9 of the book I have previously suggested you read:

Change and choice

We make choices every day. The choices we make are very powerful - the combined effect of many millions of choices makes a huge difference. By using ideas and guidance from permaculture principles and practice, you can choose to increase the chance of human survival and the survival of the other species of planet earth...

Perhaps I have it all wrong? Perhaps you do in fact work for a company that does not detract from the whole? Perhaps you may even like to share with the Forum just exactly what kind of sustainable practices the company you work for employs? Otherwise we are just left to guess, or worse, get our information from sources of government propaganda (for example):

Uranium mining in Western Australia will bring economic benefits to the State and will meet the worlds growing demand for cleaner energy.

Source: WA Department of Mines and Petroleum

Either way, my continued wish for your happiness is genuine, and I want to congratulate you on making the right choice to change the way you live it 'home'.

But please remember this: Our planet is our ultimate home.

Cheerio, Marko.

[chebs_dev]

HI Marko, no I am not insulted - after working in this game for the last 4 years I have been described as having "kevlar skin" (kevlar a product gloves are made from to prevent cuts when using knives)

Most things that humans do, have their detractors somewhere. Its mining construction, but the end result is the same - mining. I would imagine that many in the industry decide they contribute even only through their taxes to build roads, schools, hospitals and wind farms. (ok and the spa at govt house) For the companies themselves very little is contributed by their "free will" to the greater good. Its not that they can't provide an outcome more advantageous to the greater good but they choose not too. Though some places you do see quiet a high employment of indigenous. about the only sustainable practices we have is recycling paper, cans and printer cartridges, and safe disposal of hazardous goods

The environment "best practice" is definitely a farce, minimal as per requirements at best. I believe that eventually this can be changed to "best practice considering the circumstances". the article on the "what should be discussed at Copenhagen" is a start, http://permaculture.org.au/2009/12/13/carbon-trading/

The ideas expressed
•How to conserve remaining oil supplies and to best use what’s left to speed a transition to a post-fossil fuel society, and to commit to leaving newly discovered oil in the ground
•How to invest in re-educating the masses worldwide in sustainable farming practices appropriate for their own climate and soil type
•How to invest in re-educating the masses in all the other activities crucial for our existence (like localized clothing manufacturing, passive solar buildings, etc.)
Needs to be promoted also on the inside of these industries...a safer work place didn't come into existence because the companies wanted them too… otherwise there wouldn’t' need law changes to ensure it happens, or workers previously pushing and striking for it.

I did though have a chuckle at the reference to uranium mining - i have found that making a discussion emotional can sometimes prevent a practical solution. (you just have to eaves drop on a union meeting) Uranium is an emotional debate - and for me from a practical view its solution that may prevent climate change but the ramifications of the waste disposal and future pollution and contamination far outway the good that may come from such a short term solution. I am a firm believer in “Uranium leave it in the ground"

One of my hopes one day is the work with mining companies in providing "eco villages", from what i have read it seems very doable. 1500 odd people create a lot of waste! and do we really need to import fish from Thailand? I can rattle the names of about 15 camps with just as many people.

and thank you for "my continued wish for your happiness is genuine" I am sure I will.

[ecodharmamark]

Hey chebs_dev

The 'uranium' quote was smack bang in the middle of their (WA Dept of Mining and Petroleum) home page; I couldn't resist.

Yeah, importing fish from Thailand, makes about as much sense as importing icy-poles (I kid you not) from China.

I like the thrust of your thoughts, very much, and appreciate just as much you sharing them.

Eco-villages: now there is an extremely interesting discourse. Are you suggesting that you would one day like to develop them in order to make remote area mining (and the associated on-site living arangements) more sustainable? Awesome!

Regarding the 15 X 1500: I've been watching the census figures very closely - comes with the job/study - and over the last two census periods, we have seen a sharp increase in 'population' of remote areas - areas that are home to remote mining camps - and yeah, I reckon you are on to something there. I'll keep it in mind for my thesis next year.

But hey, let's not just pick on mining camps. I too have lived/worked in remote regions in the past, and I know of many FIFO situations (military, scientific research, medical, etc.) where I reckon the eco-village principles could be applied. I have a good mate, Toni, and she is returning to her 'country' early next year in order to retro-fit the community that she has strong cultural ties with. Only about 90 people live there, but big issues with water (subterranean contamination from nearby uranium mining), energy, fresh food, communications, etc. We are currently working on a preliminary plan.

Anyway, I am rambling; it's late.

Please keep us in the loop with your happenings, both at 'home' and at 'work'. Oh, and you may find the book I previously linked to a bit 'light'. Much better, I reckon (especially on those long flights in and out), is that you get yourself a copy of Holmgren's Permaculture: Principles and Pathways beyond Sustainability.

Cheerio, and take care out there mate, Marko.