How do I remove Oleander toxins from the soil?

[JamesFE]

Hi there,

I have been looking for the answer on if it is necessary to remove oleander toxins from the soil for the purpose of growing fruit trees and vegetables.

I have already asked the agricultural dept in WA and they are not 100% sure. They think it's ok but, not definite.

Is there a type of plant that I can grow to remove the toxin?

The area that I would like to grow fruit trees has had massive Oleander's removed.

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thankyou,

James

[ecodharmamark]

G'day James

Welcome to the PRI Forum.

A very vexing question that you ask, and one that you are probably never going to be given a 'right' or 'wrong' answer to. However, you could read the following and draw your own conclusion toward finding an acceptable outcome for yourself:

'Toxicity of Oleander Derived Compost' by Downer and Craigmill
http://slosson.ucdavis.edu/documents/1995-19982107.pdf

Further, this is what I would do if I were in your situation:

1) I would prepare a single soil sample that was collected using the following method:
a) Select 10 random locations from within the area known to have previously grown the Oleanders
b) Take soil samples from these locations at profile depths ranging from the surface to about 2mt

2) Get the sample tested at a reputable lab for:
a) Its overall nutrient value, and
b) Its specific value of Oleandrin, the toxic principle in Oleander

If I was satisfied that the soil was free of the toxin - remembering that Oleandrin can kill when ingested in small quantities, ie - 0.005% animal weight in horse will cause death - then I would use the area for tree crops, and maybe veg (in raised beds).

If however there were still traces of the toxin in the soil, then I would probably rip and plant the lot with deep-rooted perenials known for their 'toxic-mining' capabilities, and that would be suited to your specific climate/ general soil conditions (this info should be freely available). Once the perenials were well established, say 1-2 years, I would slash them hard and and 'drop mulch' the result, or maybe get some goats in to do this for you - remembering that if there were STILL traces of the Oleandrin in the soil, and IF these elements were captured by the perenials, then there could still be a SLIGHT chance that the goats may by ingesting them, and therefore I would be reluctant to harvest the goats, or their by products for human consumption.

After a couple of rotations/seasons of gowth and slash, or growth and goat forage, I would once again retest the soil using the above-mentioned method to determine if any Oleandrin persisted.

Hope that helps, cheerio, Markus.

[gardenlen]

g'day james,

not sure if i can help much but i'm sure people have been removing oleander for a long time now and this question has never been asked.

oleanders though toxic to some degree have never been recorded as being dangerous to life. and many plants have toxins which are biodegradable so a the plant material breaks down the toxin goes, even cane toads their toxin is very dangerous can kill dogs etc.,. but it breaks down in the soil. also right now can't imagine how the toxin could get into te fruit tree and the resulting fruit if that's the concern?

so for me i'd just plant the fruit tree by the time they bear fruit the remains of the oleander will be gone surely? nothing to say that oleander can't be composted.

len

[Michaelangelica]

I would be surprised if the oleander toxins or any other plant toxins lasted for any time in the soil.
By the time your fruit tree is bearing i am sure the toxins, from one oleander tree, would be gone.
Given that plants produce thousands, if not millions of chemicals, --all natural and biodegradable.

Toxins that are produced by man and have no history in the environment would be more of a problem. Soil biota has not evolved ways of breaking them down.
Many of these have lives expressed in generations+.

Concentrations of heavy metals (cadmium, lead)--usually caused by man's activities- would also be a problem.

Strangely, I am about to plant my first ever Oleander-- a beautiful double apricot variety - a cutting given to me by a neighbour a year or so ago.

[ecodharmamark]

G'day James

Apart from the reported and anecdotal cases that were made mention of in the article I have previously listed, you may be interested to learn about a non-intentional death caused by oleandrin ingestion in the following article:

Ibrahim A. Wasfi et al (200 'A fatal case of oleandrin poisoning'. Forensic Science International, Volume 179, Isuue 2, pp. e31-6.

Get your soil tested, mate.

Marko.

[purplepear]

We grow a dwarf oleander in the mandalas as a habitat for overwintering benificials. Should I be concerned?

[Michaelangelica]

We grow a dwarf oleander in the mandalas as a habitat for overwintering benificials. Should I be concerned?

Not unless you eat it, drink it, or smoke it, or burn it. IMHO

PP What beneficials does it attract?
( I am looking for a justification of my planting one! )

[ecodharmamark]

G'day Mark

Should I be concerned?

Probably not concerned, but at least, aware.

You may know that by ingesting elements of the plant you could be causing your own death, but what about children/animals/others who are ignorant of this fact?

Does Oleandrin (the toxic primary) of the plant Oleander remain active in the soil after a plant has been removed, and if so, can it be taken up by successive plants?

I don't know.

James must have some reason to be concerned, otherwise he would not have asked the question in the first place.

My advice remains, if in doubt, check it out (get it tested)!

Cheerio, Marko.

[Michaelangelica]

Plants are not out to get you.
Death by plants is rare.
Euthanasia plants don't exist
IMHO this mad obsession with "plants as poison" prevents us fully engaging with plants.

Most so-called "poisonous' plants taste like shit and you have to be VERY determined to get an adequate quantity down, keep it down, and writhe around in pain for 1-3 days.

The extremely bitter and nauseating taste of the sap (much like a rotten lemon) causes a mechanical reflex in the stomach which rejects and expels the vile substance. Although not impossible, a person or animal would have to have a strong stomach or no sense of taste for a dose of the toxin to be fatal.

http://oleander.org/toxic.html
Poisonous plants exist more in urban legend and crime fiction than anywhere else.
(Maybee with the exception of smoking cigarettes -another slow and painful death).

Miss-naming does not help as with oleander and "Angel's Trumpets" (any number of plants including daturas and brugmansias)
The main problem Oleander is Yellow oleander (Thevetia peruviana). It contains cardiac glucocides (Cardenolide Glycosides).

YELLOW Oleander is completely different from the Oleander in my backyard back in Chiapas (see http://www.backyardnature.net/chiapas/oleander.htm) The two oleanders belong to the same family, the Dogbane Family, or Apocynaceae, but they reside in entirely different genera. Yellow Oleanders bear one leaf at each stem node (they're alternate) and the fruit is the curious fleshy drupe in the picture, while the leaves of Oleanders, genus Nerium, mostly occur in groups of three, and the fruits are slender, okra-pod-like, dry fruits, or follicles, that open along one side when releasing seeds.

http://www.backyardnature.net/n/08/080915.htm
Most of us live within coo-ee of a hospital, and most plants give you lots of time to get help. In Oleander's case anti-digoxin antitoxin can be administered.
But how many people are killed every year in Australia by Oleander? My guess would be "O".

The Boy Scout deaths-by Oleander urban legend:-
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/oleander.asp

Like most plants with interesting chemicals, Oleander can be used medicinally.

Doctor Ozel first conducted animal studies to determine that the substance was non-toxic and, once he determined the toxicology and effects of Nerium Oleander Extract (or NOE), he conducted further experiments and developed his treatment in various forms until he eventually started tests on terminal human cases.

After initial success in treating human cancer patients with NOE, Doctor Ozel began discussing his findings with other professionals in his field. He sought analysis of the extract from various Turkish laboratories to understand the empirical results. They were unable to characterize the extracted compounds. In the hope of gaining assistance from the government or research organizations, he prepared a paper to present his first human cases at the Fourth Balkanic Medical Days Symposium held in Ankara on 20 September 1973.

http://www.naturalnews.com/022951.html

Medicinal use of the oleander plant dates back at least 3500 years. Historical records show that the Mesopotamians in the 15th century B.C. believed in the healing properties of oleander. The Babylonians used a mixture of oleander and licorice to treat hangovers.
Roman soldiers also regularly took an oleander extract for hangovers. Pliny, the Elder of ancient Greece, wrote about the appearance and properties of oleander. Arab physicians first used oleander as a cancer treatment in the 8th century A.D.
. . .
Although much of the recent focus on oleander has centered on cancer, HIV, and hepatitis-C, uses based on tradition or theory have included:

Abnormal menstruation, alcoholism, anorexia, anti-fertility, anti-inflammatory, anti-parasitic, asthma, bacterial infections, cachexia (weight loss/wasting from some diseases), cardiac abnormalities, cathartic, corns, diuretic (increase urine flow), epilepsy (seizure), eye diseases, heart disease, hemorrhoids, indigestion, inflammation, insecticide, leprosy, malaria, menstrual stimulant, neurologic disorders, pregnancy termination, psoriasis, psychiatric disorders, rat poison, ringworm, sinus problems, snake bites, skin diseases, skin eruptions, swelling, venereal disease, vomiting, warts, weight gain.

Source: MedlinePlus, a service of the U.S. National Library of Medicine and the National Institutes of Health.

http://www.naturalnews.com/022949_Oleander_health_disease.html

Like most things,-"poisonous" and not(?)-- the DOSE is the important thing.
Last year a UK woman died from ingesting too much water.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 779079.stm
So we should avoid water?

He said: "I had no idea that much water could kill someone.
If I'd have known that I would not have let her drink it."

Until recently, the NSW Dept, of Agriculture, listed Ornamental Chillies as poisonous in one of their publications. That is completely erroneous-- but how many still believe this?

The International Oleander Society
http://oleander.org/


JamesFE
Within 12 months of being in the soil oleander toxins will dissipate & dissapear.
In the meantime don't eat the dirt.

[forest dweller]

Don't worry about it. I wouldn't eat cow poo or chook poo either but I'm happy for them to be in the soil. Nature doesn't make toxins that won't rapidly break down. The main things to worry about in soil are man-made chemical compounds that take a long time to break down.

The reason that Oleander (and other toxic plants are toxic) is because of the chemical combination that they draw from the soil and the way they store it. You can't 'make' apples/oranges/etc toxic by planting them where a toxic plant was prior.

The vinyl upholstery in your car is probably doing you more damage.