Free (Statutory) Planning Advice

[suzieneil]

My partner and i found 66 acres of land in Campbells Forest, Victoria(just out of Bendigo) in June this year, it had been used for raising sheep/cattle and cropping.
So we headed off to Loddon Shire and spoke to the town manager of planning we explained that we had intentions to buy the land and put on a dwelling and raise some cattle and put in a crop some organic vegies and chickens. After he got the site up on the computer he said it looked straight forward and that he couldn't see a problem and encouraged us to get plans drawn up and submit them with our application. So after spending several thousand dollars having our house and shed plans drawn up we waited eagerly to hear the result of our application, never at any time were we told there would be a problem, after 3 weeks we were contacted and the manager of planning wanted more detailed information all questions were answered to the best of our ability. Many weeks later my partner rang and the response was " i am having a real problem with your application, i can't see how you could make a living on this property". my partner is self employed , semi retired and works from home, so he was told that a answer would be given within the next couple of days, it was nearly the end of the week so i decided to ring, i got a different answer to my partner this time it was because it didn't suit a dwelling and was more for agriculture. The following week my partner rang back and the response had changed again this time he said it was because it was under 100 acres, at no time was this ever said, we make our intentions very clear right from the start and specifically said it was 66 acres. Our advice from the manager was, come and get your application fee back because if it goes to council you won't win because they always heed my advice. Well we stood firm and we actually went to the council meeting and heard our application read out as written by the planning manager, NEVER was it stated that we wanted to farm the land, he made it look like we only wanted to put up a house and live there, no cattle, no crops, nothing, and when one of the councillers asked "what are they going to do with the land" the response was " i don't know as i have nothing in front of me" It did state in the agenda that we wanted to crop and use for animal husbandry but nothing else and it was obvious that the spokesperson for the manager only read out select items and it was more obvious that councillers do not preview the agenda before a meeting. So we lost, we couldn't speak up and say it was read out wrong and we lost nearly $500 in application fee. So what can we do? how can we word this so we can get our application approved if we apply again? is it worth going to VCAT? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[ecodharmamark]

G'day suzieneil

Welcome to the PRI Forum.

For professional and legal reasons I cannot comment via this forum specifically on your case as described, however I can give you some general advice about where you may like to go from here.

As you have so rightly pointed out, you do now have the option of appealing your case to VCAT. This need not be such a daunting task as you might believe. The Planning and Environment List at VCAT has been set up to act as

...an independent tribunal, which hears and decides applications by permit applicants, objectors and others in an informal and expeditious manner and upon their merits. It permits a broad range of people whose interests are affected by a decision to participate in a hearing.

All of the information you should fully consider prior to going to VCAT is listed at the above link in the 'yellow' section. I would urge you to study in detail all of this information, and to get back to me here with any questions you think I might be able to help you resolve.

Your question to date about how you should frame your 'claim' at VCAT is one the needs to be considered in the overall context of all the matters detailed in the above-mentioned information.

I am sorry that I can not just wave a 'magic wand' and help you achieve your dream. However, I am sure that you can appreciate the complex nature of the situation you now find yourself in, and if you follow my advice and carefully study all of the information (yes, I know I keep referring to this, but it is vitally important that you understand what it is that you at getting yourself into), and by doing so can then convince me that you are endeavouring to implement the ethics and principles of permaculture at your site, then my advice will continue as promised - free!

Cheerio for now, Marko.

[suzieneil]

Thank you so much for a very quick response.
My partner and i will have a very good study up on the help you have given and we will certainly keep in contact. Once again Thank you

[matto]

G'day Mark,
This is really great to see, and furthur confirms that permaculture principles and ethics are evolving.
Im just curious to know if you have found any areas in Australia that do not have the need for planning permits. Im sure you heard Michael Reynolds talk of this, and was wondering if you have done any research on this.
Thanks.

[ecodharmamark]

G'day Mark,
This is really great to see, and furthur confirms that permaculture principles and ethics are evolving.
Im just curious to know if you have found any areas in Australia that do not have the need for planning permits. Im sure you heard Michael Reynolds talk of this, and was wondering if you have done any research on this.
Thanks.

G'day matto

Generally speaking, all land use and development proposals in Australia (and therefore all land "areas in Australia") need to be 'tested' against the various state and territory legislative frameworks to determine whether or not they require planning permits. Of course, not all proposals require a planning permit. Those that do not are generally called 'as of right', like the construction of a farm shed in a farming zone, for example. Nor are some proposals even considered. Generally termed 'prohibited', an example of this kind of proposal might be the use of a brothel next door to a pre-school. Which leaves those kinds of proposals that are required to undergo the assessment process, such as our friend above with the example of a dwelling in a farming zone under 40ha. This category of proposal is generally termed 'discretionary', and for obvious reasons is the one that gives people the most grief.

Having said that, there are some exemptions to the rule. One that I am aware of is commonwealth-owned land (regardless of where it is situated within the country) . The commonwealth has has its own legal process for determining land use and development control (of which I will not go into here due to time constraints).

Another exemption scenario which comes to mind are the powers of the various state ministers to intervene in the statutory process. The state of which I am most familiar with concerning this practice is Victoria. Here the minister has enormous powers of veto or ascent, but rarely does he use them (for fear of political backlash, one would presume). The Victorian Department of Planning and Community Development (DPCD) have a web page devoted to the Role of the Minister and his various 'powers of intervention'.

The scenario which I suspect Mike Reynolds referred to when he was last here in Australia (or at least at the lecture in Bendigo, of which I attended), was ministerial intervention at a federal level. I did mean to follow up on this, but have not yet done so (it's on the list - buried at about number 346 of 'things to do'), so thanks for the reminder.

I do know that matters of national environmental (and this is where planning usually gets lumped into at the federal level) importance are regulated by the EPBC Act, and that within this Act there are references to ESD (ecologically sustainable development), but these are mainly to do with performance reporting by government entities. I am still yet to study this particular Act in depth, so I do not know whether there is the ability to use it in order to free oneself of the requirement of getting a planning permit in order to develop a permaculture site, or otherwise.

Further, another thing I do know is that at a federal level there is a little used collection of motherhood statements called the National Strategy for Ecologically Sustainable Development. This document has no legal standing, but it does at least give us something to work with when meeting our local federal members of parliament. Have a read of it when you get the chance, I am sure you will find it interesting.

I'll get back to you about your initial question when I have done the research. If I have not commented on it in the next 6-months or so, please remind me. Better still, see if you can find out for yourself in the meantime and share the information with us all.

Cheerio, Markos.

[matto]

Thanks a bunch for the reply, Markos.
I will certainly post any information I find regarding these Pockets of Freedom.
Great tips to research also, you know your stuff!
Thanks again.

[Mudman]

Mark,
Great service you are supplying here and a great way for you to improve your knowledge on things you probably haven't even thought of.

We are creating a Permaculture property here in Brisbane, Brisbane City Council is the local authority.
Have created most of the basics already, greywater system, strawbale granny flat (will be B&B when house finished), orchard, chook shed, 2 x 23,000L water tanks, solar hot water.
But it is all still a work in progress and we have now begun building the main house, we are Owner Building everything.
Our ultimate goial is to be energy and water self sufficient. The energy component will have to wait till we get some decent subsidies so we can afford it.

But the one thing we would like to do and can afford to do is go completely off grid for the water.
We are planning an extra 30-46,000L tank when the house is complete. We want to be disconnected from the water grid.

The problem we are faced with is that Brisbane City Council does not allow houses that have access to the water grid to use rain water for anything except flushing toilets and washing machines. We have been using the tank water to drink for the last 3 years but have to cart the water into the house.

So would you have any ideas on how we can legally get around council requirements for going off grid?

Cheers and thanks in advance
Kurt & Kathy

[purplepear]

Have you read Joel Salatins book "everything I want to do is illegal" Mudman?
I reckon Marko has some real advice for you but you need also to look at the reasons they make these rules and safely circumvent them.
With proper plumbing that makes no chance of cross contamination and a first flush so you are not drinking pollution or bird shit you are on your way to covering the concerns that the local authourity has in using your own water. If you put an ultra violet filter in especially the drinking water or a reverse osmosis filter you will be there IMO

[ecodharmamark]

G'day Kurt and Kathy

PP is right, it really does come back to safety - both for yourselves as potential re-users (consumers) of collected rainwater, and to the broader community/environment as a whole.

I'm a planner. I have no qualifications in environmental health. As such my 'advice' here has no legal nor professional merit. Having said that, I have looked at your scenario (it's a veritable legislative minefield) and I offer the following as 'general advice' only:

Concerning Council's policy:

Please be aware that the only two internal uses for rainwater supported by Council are toilet flushing and cold water washing machine taps.

My advice would be to question where this policy came from, and what legal standing it has (i.e. - what legislation controls it).

I note there does not appear to be any mention of it in the Health, Safety and Amenity Local Law 2009.

At the state level, and according to DERM:

If you plan to use your rainwater for drinking you will need to keep your roof and gutters clean, and monitor the water quality regularly. See Queensland Health’s website for information about water quality:

QLD Health - Environmental Health Branch - Water Quality Unit

The above is big on legislation, but little on actual advice (although, there is one downloadable 'guideline' here - search 'drinking water'). Overall, my suggestion would be to give them a call to try and determine what legislation controls your proposal in your particular setting.

The following may also help you with your research:

DOMESTIC RAINWATER HARVESTING IN QUEENSLAND

At the end of the day, if you wish to 'legally get around council requirements for going off grid', you need to first find out what the legal requirements are! You need to study the relevant legislation. Often there are legal 'alternatives' buried in the legislation, but without knowing what this legislation may or may not be, I can't help you any further.

Please let us know how you get on. It's an interesting project.

Cheerio, Markos.

[ecodharmamark]

G'day All

Just like the old saying goes, "All good things must come to an end", and so too must my offer of (never-ending) free planning advice, due mainly to other commitments. I have enjoyed working these past couple of years on a variety of projects (over 50 in number), but mostly I have enjoyed meeting wonderful people and visiting beautiful places, ether in person or virtually as part of a desk-top analysis.

Of course, and in line with my ethical considerations, I am still open to offering an initial free statutory planning advice consultation (up to 1-hour) to anyone contemplating this as a need within their emerging permaculture design - Intentional Communities, step to the front of the line! Anything over and above this time will be billed at an agreed upon rate - In simple terms, you offer to pay me whatever it is you think you can afford, and whether I accept your offer or not is purely dependent upon what else I have going on at the time. The going rate for a planner in Australia at present is about $130-40 per hour.

Once again, thank you all for the opportunity to learn and grow with you as I completed my undergraduate degree, and may your project bear delicious fruit in the very near future, Mark.