Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[forest]

I don't think it should be censored either. I didn't suggest that. I am totally against censorship. I do think we should read critically though and not accept everything that is posted here as valid and worthy.

[christopher]

Good point!

[Tezza]

gee cant anyone post something anymore without getting stick..

If all those who didnt understand,said ah Stuff it, where would we be..

pity we have so many expert experts.and people who beleive what experts say,,,,are we all experts or are we all idiots,or expert idiots.or expert geniuses..

Dont ask me Im no expert either

Tezza

Tez - no doubt about it... we all expert idiots!

If I knew what I was doing, it wouldn't be called research. :lol:

[Caite]

i reckon that something that everyone has said is valid in some way. lets keep in mind, though, that scientific research and exploratory hypothesis are simply theoretical. i think that our society places too much emphasis on scientific validation of theories as proof of their substantiability. like heisenberg said: what we perceieev is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning. there simply is no such thing as a single 'reality'.

does it really matter whether or not this proposed research will go ahead, or produce any substansive results?

maybe i missed something in the chatting and finger-waggling, but what say you to the idea that there isnt simply one type of intelligence, buyt many: intellectual intelleigence, emotional intelligence, creative intelligence, social intelligence etc...

maybe the 'problems' that we encounter on a global social level are not in fact due solely to an excess of intellectual intelligence but to an inherent lack of emotional intelligence...this is not something that we seem to foster socially in the west with much objective enthusiasm...and then theres the lack of integration between the two...

there are many things that were said in the original post that DO resound with a little truth...as we think more and more we fail to have a clarity of mind that allows us to experience things as they are, or be. we collectively and individually fail to distinguish emtion from thought, experiencing emotion as thought and thought as emotion. i see anger not so much as a though pattern, but as a reaction to emotion, which is a physical/ spiritual experience. im sure that many of you will agree that when you feel pain you experience it cognitively. that is to say, you might become stressed, worried, become overwhelmed in your mind by the information being sent to your brain *alarmalarmalarm*...

mayhap it is the thoughts that we plaster over the physical pain that are the issue, and not the actual physical pain itself. the aversion to suffering, and the craving for an end to the suffering.

if the mind were clear, equanimous, then perhaps the pain itself would be experienced as it was in its own light. the mind would be still and not tormented by the experience, but objectively experiencing it. i guess im trying unsuccessfully to say that ultimately many of the emotions and thoughts that we register are connected by conditioning. emotions are not necessarily things that are limited to the mind or to the brain (which are distinct things in themselves). thought and emotion ARE connected, but produce, feed and nourish one another. the chicken or the egg syndrome.

and the post about not experiencing fear, pain, emotion in sleep. huh? do you never have nightmares, delicious dreams that you dont want to wake from? do you sleep like a fridge that is unplugged? emotion is something that is infused not only into the conscious mind. and the conscious mind...for that matter, why is so much emphasis put on the power or importance3 of the conscious mind? we humans are far more driven by the subconscious mind...

the conscious mind is like the tip of an iceberg...

the original post was a bit flimsy in terms of scientific experimentation, but the theory behind it, given a moments thought, might ring true for some of you....

look at the teachings of all the prophets reverred by many societies...gotthama, muhammad, jesus, confuscious, the daoists, the asthetics...they all speak of the same things...still the mind, understand emotion, understand thought, understamd that this experience is not defined by these things, they serve simply as lenses through which we gaze...what colour do you see?

[christopher]

Thank you for that.

Where are you in China?

[Tezza]

Try This on for size.



If something happened to humans and the only survivers were Permie type people......We would survive, because we are too busy for anything else.
As Swami says.being intellegent is creating our "NOW"(war,crime,greed,etc)

I think we got it all wrong back a few thousand years ago when everyone was a Permaculturist..........

I blame the first Permaculturist for all this crap. Why?..He was the person
who, had a few more brain cells then the other persons.
He was probly the first Person to put a sign at his front gate saying
"For Sale Fruit n Vegies.."

So when Someone else took over the role of food provider that freed up a person to sit down and star thinking......The Rest as they Say Is History

Tezza

[earthbound]

Interesting thoughts Caite..

I don't think that concious thought always precedes emotions, not when taking into account the whole range of different emotions. Fear is an emotion that requires no concious thought. In fact fear doesn't follow any thought patern when you take into account some obsesive compulsive disorders.. They conciously know that they have no reason to fear, it can be conciously worked through that there is no reason for fear at all, yet the fear is still there... Like the flight reaction, when faced with a threat there isn't any concious thought before we flee in fear.

An open mind is essential.. The world was always flat, untill some crackpot went and proved differently... And Aren't they just realising that maybe quantum mechanics has some flaws?

When we think we have all the answers, then we're really in trouble......

[christopher]

Joel,

We just saw the Shining last week. Its a movie, right? Stanley Kubrick directed it, Jack Nicholson, etc, good movie.

Now, I know its not a movie, but when I went outside to drain my dragon (my homeboy, JC used that phrase, long ago and its probably hopelessly outdated...), and I had to control the fear mechanism, even though I KNOW the movie is a movie.....

So fear is often outside of rational thought, though, in the case of seeing a fer de lance (extremely poisonous snake) I am afraid right away, and I still carry fear after I have killed it.....

Funny like that....

C

Fear is processed thought.

Fight and flight responses can and do change in relation to the stimuli.

Therefore, it would be safe to say, that it is during or as a result of discrimination of the stimuli, that someone acts (or responds) to the stimuli with thought, followed by action.

Repeated flight (or fight) behaviours have been seen to lead to a habitual tendency to respond in such a way. However habit, is not instinct.