Grey Water reed bed and toilet flush system?

[Margarita]

Hello, I'm looking for design information for a grey water recycling system using a reedbed or small wet land filtration system that is suitable for an inner surburban backyard.

Ideally water from shower, bath, washing machine can first be diverted to flush toilets with the overflow/excess filtering through a reedbed/wetland (within 24 hours) and then finally to the fruit and possibly veg garden via drip irrigation. I've seen systems by rotaloo (nimi trench) but they caution being used on sites less that 2000sqm. CERES here in Brunswick have employed a similar system, but again, it's on a much larger block. I have space for a reedbed/wetland between 3-4sqm.

I've have seen options that can divert grey water from shower/washing machine to a holding tank that is used to flush the toilet with the excess sent to the sewer after 24hours to comply with the rules.

If anyone has information on a system that can both flush toilets and be filtered through a wetland then used on the garden that would be great.

[gardenlen]

margarita,

for me i don't reckon that we should be producing enough grey water to warrant any sort of reed bed, we keep our system simple, currently for flushinbg solids only toilet we use our shower water (collected in buckets) or laundry water. our laundrya water and our dish water goes to the veg gardens as is and fresh as can be.

a reed bed system is going to use nutrients that could otherwise be utilised by other food plants, we make our own laundry detergent and use that earth friendly dish detergent washing by hand in a basin that allows the water collected at the sink tap to go to the garden.

to better manage our water resources we use a twin tub washer so 90 litres (total fill for washing and rinsing) gets used for 3 loads of clothes. would like to be able to afford a small nature-loo toilet unit even if only for my use so that even less water is needed for the toilet. we are currently using app' 80 litres per day of water per person, so here that is around 160 litres in total.

and for the main showering seems to be more a habit than a total necessity in lots of cases.

gardens and food trees are all heavily mulched.

len

[DirtyDave]

You must check with your local council before installing any grey water system that irrigates your land,
The Big problem we all overlook with grey water is spreading disease, I personally would not use greywater anywhere near veggies.
The authorities biggest concern is some one infecting there neighbors, In south Australia at the moment there is a rebate for installing rainwater tanks,
If possible I would be investing in a rainwater tank and use grey water as a last option, Each state has diffrent laws, re grey water, One good use is use your grey water to flush your toilets, but remember grey water must be dumped after 24 hours to prevent bacterial growth

[IntensiveGardener]

Margarita,
i am by no means an expert but i generally agree with DirtyDave about the use of grey water on vegies. It should at least be a last resort with harvested rainwater, water from shower etc being used first.
I have seen very small processing systems for grey water but i'm not sure how effective they are.
Essentially they are made from a peice of tin/wood/corrigated iron on a slight slope. On top is a reid bed made from charcole, sand, clay etc, in alternating layers. Grey water enters the top end and slowly filters through until clean(er) water trickles out the bottom and is directed onto gardens.
hope this helps,
cheers,
IG

[gardenlen]

The Big problem we all overlook with grey water is spreading disease, I personally would not use greywater anywhere near veggies.

??????????????

you have some hard case evidence to support the above theory??

ie.,. how many people are there in hospital suffering from an identifiable illness pandemic from the above statement???

personnaly i have never heard or seen any hard evidience, anywhere in the world. as one US of A poster said ther isn't one single document piece of evidence to show that any person ahs ever gotten sick from watering plnats with grey water.

and if it is so bad for the garden then what should me and my family be looking for in our own health to determine it is caused by watering plants with fresh grey water? which we like many others with no health problems have been doing for over a decade now.

be careful of fear hype throw away lines, very political stunt.

the vege's look super healthy and taste great as well.

in this time of severe drought (now that is well documented) managing your water use by using water at least twice makes good water conservation sense.

so please what signs must i look for so i can show other sensible gardeners what will happen if they use grey water??

len

[Ojo]

simple sand and gravel re-use system
http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/yourhome/t ... l/fs23.htm
alittle more elaborate
http://www.constructedwetlands.org/cw/index.cfm
search by country
http://www.fao.org/landandwater/aglw/wa ... rusedb.jsp

some other stuff

http://rainwaterharvesting.tamu.edu/

There is also an HVAC intake in the cistern that provides cooler air to the house,
excerpt
http://www.uoregon.edu/~hof/S01havestin ... usion.html

"I hooked a water pump to a bicycle trainer and use it to pump water out of my rainwater system." Watering his yard, totally for FREE and getting exercise at the same time
excerpt
http://www.harvesth2o.com/

[IntensiveGardener]

Nice links Ojo,
Glad to see some communities at least are moving past the idea of septic tanks etc.. I wonder how large these reid beds need to be to be effective.

The debate over wheather or not to use grey water seems to be a long running and drawn out one. Len is right that there is a certain amount of hype and hysteria generated by the mainstream against the idea.

On the other hand i'v seen hippies ruin their land using impure water (from salty bores, very dirty waste water etc...
Obviously the question of plant and human health depends largely on what is going into the grey water. All i'm saying is that its best to use the cleaner water (from showers, roofs etc) on vegies like salads and let the dirtyer grey water (from washing machines, dishes etc) onto grass, fruit trees etc.
IMO plants will take up whatever is in the water which is applied to them through their tap root. (like fertigation systems). If this water contains high levels of nitrates, phosphates etc they will take it up and grow very well because of the extra nutrients. They will look very large, lush and green, but may not be as good for you as plants grown in fertile humus with clean water. Plant size is not always an indication of their health.

This is a similar debate to using humanure, urine etc on vegies. I am opposed to it unless the waste goes through several natural systems first, including a plant and an animal (like an earth worm).
Some people will claim that i am being over cautious or swallowing the anti-organic propaganda of mainstream society. I am not. It is easy to observe how cattle will not eat the grass growing from their cow pats unless they have absolutely no choice, Even though that grass would have a higher NPK content.
As for disease and pathogens; well i understand the concern about that in human waste. With grey water though it shouldn't be a big problem, if your really worried simply rince your vegies first. Unless your reusing water from an area known to be infected with something really nasty (anthrax, foot in mouth, Mad cow disease etc) , or have serious dermatological issues i wouldn't worry :-)

Cheers,
IG

[gardenlen]

g'day ig,

as with most/all things in life all must be dealt with a modicom of common sense, we share our grey water around gardens and fruit trees as well as flsuhing solids only toilet business, plus we find after many years making our own laundry detergent and using that earth friendly dish detergent we have had no problems.

len

[Ojo]

making the world safe for corporations makes it unsafe for people.


(another pathogen thread)
http://www.jenkinspublishing.com/messag ... 1156983131

The bad news is that we're continuing to do this in the United States, more so than in any other country. Even though the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has finally come up with some restrictions, we still feed cow's blood back to calves, the fat from cows to calves, pigs to pigs, chickens to chickens, and then those animals back to cows. So there are all sorts of avenues through which this disease could amplify in livestock and potentially spread into people in the U.S.

And that's one thing that's so disturbing about what the US. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the FDA have and have not done. We have documents that we obtained under the Freedom of Information Act which show that as early as 1990 and 1991, regulators with the USDA were saying, "Well, if we want to be safe here in the United States, we should stop this widespread practice of cow cannibalism, but that would be hard on the meat industry." Very early on, the British, through good science, confirmed that the Mad Cow infection was spreading through cow cannibalism, and they began acting in 1988 to shut it down. But the U.S. failed to act at all, even though they knew they should have. Why? Because we have a real problem in this country with the USDA and the FDA being more concerned with protecting the meat industry they're theoretically regulating than with protecting consumers and livestock.

So while the USDA and FDA are supposed to be protecting US consumers from the sorts of dangers we've been discussing, a central function of theirs is to promote sales for the meat and dairy industries. How does this double function play out?

SR: Well, I always say that when you create an institution which has a built in contradictory mission, what you're designing is corruption, because you can't serve two opposing masters well. And the result is that the USDA's and FDA's efforts to serve as regulators of food safety are compromised by their imperative to serve as marketing agents for the food industry.
excerpt

http://www.lipmagazine.org/articles/featpostel_31_p.htm

if you die from a pathogen from an organic apple, it's probably because the factory farmed food lowered your immunity.
http://www.factoryfarm.org/topics/antibiotics/reports/

[Ojo]

New Diseases Arise as Environments Destroyed, Says UN

Overall, it seems that intact habitats and landscapes tend to keep infectious agents in check.
excerpt
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0222-02.htm


The migration of antibiotic resistance from animal feeding operations into groundwater has broad implications for human and ecological health.
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/aug2007 ... 22-095.asp

"In a particularly ominous trend, mainstay antimicrobials are failing at a rate that outpaces the development of replacement drugs."

Other older threats, such as pandemic influenza, malaria and tuberculosis, continue to pose a threat to public health through a combination of mutation, rising resistance to antimicrobial medicines and weak health systems, Chan said.
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/aug2007 ... -23-04.asp



Increasing your immune system naturally is possible. Many people are concerned about what damages the immune system, but those things that are beneficial are sometimes overlooked. A natural immune system builder may include a combination of vitamins, minerals, plant components and/or herbs. These can help, but good nutrition, a healthy diet, reducing stress and regular exercise are of utmost importance.

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Echinacea was the most commonly used medicinal plant by Native Americans of the North American plains. It was used to relieve symptoms and hasten recover from everything from the common cold to influenza and infections of all types. It is often recommended for increasing your immune system naturally because of this fact. Echinacea is a common plant that grows in many areas of the world. And while Echinacea supplements may be 100% natural, they may not be 100% safe. Recent evidence suggests that continued use for extended periods of time (more than 90 days) can be toxic to the liver. It should therefore be avoided by anyone who takes prescription or over the counter medications that are known to be toxic to the liver. And extended use should be avoided. This could be a problem for those who are looking for a natural immune system builder, because studies indicate that full effectiveness as a preventative is only achieved after using for three months consecutively. Echinacea may be a better choice for occasional use, as a treatment or to speed recovery time from colds and viruses, as this was its historical use.

One of the most interesting herbs for increasing your immune system naturally is Andrographis paniculata or AP for short. AP was used in traditional Asian medicine to treat fever, laryngitis, pneumonia, respiratory infections, tonsillitis, diarrhea, ulcers, herpes, tuberculosis and a long list of other medical conditions. Scientific studies show that AP contains pain killers, fever reducers and components that prevent and break up blood clots as well as reduce blood sugar levels. So, its historical use can be supported by scientific fact.

There is also scientific evidence supporting its recommendation as a natural immune system builder. It stimulates antibodies and white blood cells to find and destroy invaders. Extensive chemical studies have shown that AP can be effective for increasing your immune system naturally, because of antiviral, vermicidal, and antibacterial components. It is rare to find a single plant, which contains all three of these. Clinical studies indicate that people who take AP are less likely to develop colds and flu bugs and recover more quickly if they do. It is also believed to be a safe natural immune system builder. Animal studies have shown that it is non-toxic. It should however be avoided by pregnant women or those who wish to become pregnant, since it was used historically as a contraceptive. There is, however, no evidence that it is an effective contraceptive and should not be relied on for that purpose.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Increasing-Yo ... &id=298361