Grey water problems, what to do? - Grey Water Recycling

[Dave Grady]

I would like to know a few things about grey water, (water straight from the washing machine/ soap sudds and all). We have recently bought a house in Witta south east Queensland on the Blackall Range.
The washing machine water goes to a pipe in this one huge ornamental garden bed 2 to 3 inches below the surface of the soil and it is almost allways wet, we have removed 20 odd dead plants from there and want to find out some facts about grey water long term on soils.

1. Should I raise the soil level so the water is further away from the plants roots?
or
2. Should I dig the pipe deeper in the soil keeping the existing soil level?
3. We have goin to a phosphate free detergent, are there any brands that are just great for the soil?
4.Will detergents build or have built up in the soil to a poisonous stage?
5. should I divert to water to the grassed area or a treed area?

Any help/advise or peoples experiences would be most appreciated.

With soap wet regards Dave

[permaculture.biz]

Hi Dave,

Your name is familiar. I worked in Maleny last year as a designer/teacher at Fountainhead in McCarthy's Rd. Love that Witta area with its fantastic western views towards Conondale.

Any way I perhaps can help with some of your grey water questions:

I think it is always wise to pretreat grey water prior to use to "polish" it before use - therefore reducing the concentration and loading of nutrient, salts etc. of water before it goes into soils. Also it allows for regulation of supply of water and responsibly increases the array of potential uses for the water to include some food crops. I have posted to many people a copy of an EPA Victoria approved grey water treatment system (otherwise available with a bit of delving for download of the Vic EPA site). So perhaps having a look at this would be a start. There are also a number of excellent publications (most short) that outline system design and operation. I believe that some shandying with fresh or dam water is advisable to dilute the salt loads that come from detergents.

To your questions:

1. Should I raise the soil level so the water is further away from the plants roots?
or
2. Should I dig the pipe deeper in the soil keeping the existing soil level?

This would depend on the type of delivery pipe being used - the Leeaky Hose pipe is what I have a general preference for as it is low pressure (4.5psi = <1m gravity) and is very suitable for grey water reticulation. Its best application is when it is buried at 100mm below the soil surface - which immediately reduces weeds, evaporation and keeps potentially harmful pathogens 4 inches below the ground (even more if mulch is used.).

3. We have goin to a phosphate free detergent, are there any brands that are just great for the soil?

The Planet Ark range of detergents are rated as suitable for grey water reuse. Detergents have salts though so it is a good idea to dilute grey water to reduce the concentration and spread the flow over a greater area.

4.Will detergents build or have built up in the soil to a poisonous stage?

All detergents are chemical compounds that have varying amounts of salts, chlorides, nutrients (esp. P) and an array of other compounds and enzymes that depend on the product. These will over time be bound up in the soil if the products are highly loaded and if the grey water is applied without regard for the potential effects. Understanding the nature of you soil (thru a test in particular), and using appropriate low load products will allow you to make amendment decisions over time that will ameliorate the likelyhood to toxic levels of any given chemical. This is not kids stuff, so I believe its important to be educated in the fundamentals and install systems that reduce this likelyhood. So doing EPA/book research etc. is invaluable in developing the best way to deal with very valuable resource.

5. should I divert to water to the grassed area or a treed area?

My dad has had a hose straight from his washing machine and shower straight onto the lawn for years. He's not a concerned about any chemical effects as the state of his lawns is a public reflection of his community standing! As long as his lawn is always good he's happy. He is on a well drained soil and unwittingly (despite my attempts at education) pours heaps of crap detergents onto his lawns and trees which go into the ground water and contribute in a small way to downstream salinity and overnutrification. So yes it will work but you have a responsibility with how you use it - that is why there are guidelines for its use.

Hope this helps in some way.

Good Luck,

DD

[Dave Grady]

Thanks DD for that information, I do totally agree with your attitude towards this subject and really appreiate you taking the time to help me.
I have been thinking about a filter type system and I will go to that web site to download that detailed grey water strategy plan.
I'm not one to go changing things for no reason -BUT if plants are dieing and there is a smell around I think this is a big wake up call.
This property had some permaculture features like swails and nitrigon fixing trees and plants in and around the orchard, so my ignorance said the grey water must be right but my brian said "I don't think so".
I have a holding tank for the kitchen water so I will also use the grey water info for this as well and it would be great to use all this water with out feeling that the enviroment is be posioned.

Thanks again DD, just the information I needed to go and make a plan cheers, and yes Witta is a very very very special place, I intend on looking after this land.

Regards soon to be clear and clean and healthy Dave Grady

[permaculture.biz]

Hi Dave,

No worries, glad to be of help.

I forgot to list the titles of the books I referred to:

Branched Drain Greywater Systems
by Art Ludwig
ISBN 0-9643433-5-5

Create an Oasis with Greywater
by Art Ludwig
ISBN 0-9643433-0-4

You should be able to get them both thru that great bookshop in Maleny (that I've forgotten the name of) or down the coast at Dymocks or somewhere.

I have a locally produced book (thru Freinds of the Earth I think) as well but it was missing from the library - I hope not permanently. If I can dig it up I'll let you know. Back issues of Soft Technology, Earth Garden etc. often have articles on the subject too.

Cheers,

Darren Doherty

[Chook Nut]

Hi all,

I have seen the book Darren has recomended at the 'Maleny Co-Op' store in the main drag of Maleny.

I agree Witta is beatiful and have stayed there at a friends place a few times now.

The only constructive thing i was going to mention to you Dave is that the co-op store sell detergents there that you may be interested in or get good info from their supplier of its ingredients,(we have bought some from there ourselves). We use it on our front loader which uses considerably less detergent(and water) than a top loader, so that may be a consideration for the future perhaps?!

Cheers..... Dave

[permaculture.biz]

Hi,

Haven't found that FOE Greywater manual but I did remember the title today (whilst mindlessly painting away!) - I think its called "Not Down the Drain".

Yeah I forgot about the coop. I guess the new building would be open now - any rap on what its like?

Cheers,

DD