Diploma of Permaculture - Career paths?

[eco4560]

Personally I'd be uncomfortable being taught permaculture by someone that wasn't living the lifestyle as well. And that basically excludes teaching full time as you need time to work your land.

[Grahame]

Thing is. To me, permaculture really only has to be sustainable with its underlying basis in Earth care, People Care and Share the surplus. The main career path should be in providing that surplus. Because we haven't yet transitioned into an integrated system of permaculture (integrated permaculture villages and communities) that means at least some of that surplus needs to be shared at a 'cost' to the people it is shared with. For us that mostly takes the form of fresh garlic and other fresh vegetables.

At this point in time a surplus of permacultural design knowledge is to me a legitimate export or surplus too. In most cases it probably does satisfy the Earth care and People care criteria.

I'd be happy with anyone who is making a buck from conscious, caring, right minded agricultural pursuits. If all the people in the world did this it would be way beyond enough. If half the people did this it would be better than a tiny few living an intensively strict permaculture lifestyle. Lets meet people half way at least and then we might possibly be able to make the long journey together.

I'm happy being a conscientious food grower for local people, even if in many ways I am only a permaculture pretender. At least for the moment I am. I may not be as lenient on myself tomorrow

[Pakanohida]

Personally I'd be uncomfortable being taught permaculture by someone that wasn't living the lifestyle as well. And that basically excludes teaching full time as you need time to work your land.

I agree, I have learned there is no way I could possibly teach someone until a lot more gets done on this property, and sadly I am all alone at the moment. With my wifes medical problems there is no way she can ever help me aside from talking out problems I have with Permaculture.

In short, its all on me.

Maybe in time when trees & benches are cut into the hillside, and so on. However, right now I just give free tours to the people that ask me nicely.

[purplepear]

I'd be happy with anyone who is making a buck from conscious, caring, right minded agricultural pursuits. )

I would love to know if this ever happens - it seems that all "profits" go straight back to the land or the people by way of improvements. But that fits the ethic and it is a great life!

[Grahame]

Oh, yeah, I guess that's what happens here too PP. I think I was thinking that is 'making a buck'. It certainly counts as 'making a living' in my book. I suppose 'making a buck' could easily mean different things to different folks. For me it means paying the bills and getting a little bit of improvement here and there.

[purplepear]

Well thankfully we are doing that Grahame. And indications are that prosperity may well be around the corner somewhere.

[Grahame]

Sweet. I feel the same optimism.

[PeterFD]

Hi DJ…

A very interesting thread. Many years ago I gained a degree in Ecology and spent many happy years working on various projects, mostly being grant funded by the British Government. Unfortunately, and idealism aside, it was almost impossible to earn a living as an Ecologist and so I had to return to University and get a post-graduate diploma in Computer Studies.

As you have discovered, working with computers, allows you to earn some real money!!

A couple of years ago I was able to sell-up and buy a small goat farm in the foothills of the French Alpes and start to do some of the things I’ve always wanted too. However, its tough going and sometimes we just don’t know where the next penny’s coming from.

This type of story seems to be repeated many times within the world of permaculture and seems to be something of the preferred route. That is, earn enough money to buy some land and make sure you have enough spare to support yourself/family for at least a couple of years while you organise yourself sufficiently to gain an income within the lifestyle you’ve chosen to adopt.

I suppose the next question is just where do you propose to get a Diploma in Permaculture from since I’m not aware of any recognised University teaching the subject. However, a few brave soul’s are including permaculture as a small part of a standard degree/diploma in related subjects.

Within the world of Permaculture an obvious answer is to do a PDC course. However, this is just a 72 hour course and the PDC is just a certificate of attendance. If you read the permaculture blurb, possessing this certificate of attendance allows you to call yourself a Permaculture graduate and put the letters PDC after your name ……….. however, in the big bad world nobody is going to take you seriously!

On the PRI’s front page I have sometimes read amazing articles of people who have done a PDC and the very next week gained a contract to install a 30,000 dollar permaculture site, or who have started a constancy with at least part of the world beating a pathway to their door. However, on closer inspection, many of these people seem to be qualified Landscape Gardeners, with many years of experience, but have decided to integrate Permaculture into their landscape designs. The big question here is, are these people consulted because of there qualifications and experience in Landscape Gardening, or because they have a 72 hour PDC? In my experience, all of the other individuals who are making any success out of permaculture as consultants seem to have qualifications in other areas, e.g., a degree/diploma in agriculture/horticulture/Biology, etc., and incorporate permaculture into their work.

So, if you want to earn some real money as a permaculture consultant, firstly get yourself a degree/diploma from a recognised Univeristy – preferably one that includes permaculture as a component part of the course. Then do your PDC. On the minus side, you will learn many things that you feel are not appropriate, however, on the plus you will understand how the system currently works and hopefully how permaculture can provide viable and sustainable alternatives.

People will listen to you because you have a degree/diploma in agriculture, etc., which they will recognise, and hopefully they will still be listening when you start to talk about viable and sustainable alternatives they can adopt.

Within permaculture we often hear about “transition” and I would tend to believe that this is the key to getting permaculture established as mainstream within agriculture. However, we need consultants who clearly understand both the current practices within the world of agriculture, and the reasoning behind them, and the viable, sustainable practices proposed by permaculture ….. and in particular how to transition from one to the other.

[Pakanohida]

People will listen to you because you have a degree/diploma in agriculture, etc., which they will recognise, and hopefully they will still be listening when you start to talk about viable and sustainable alternatives they can adopt.

You do NOT need a diploma, if you SHOW them what you can do with Permaculture. Bill Mollison, & Holgrem did not, and do not want Permaculture taught in University due to the BS that goes with those drone factories.

There is a couple in Iowa, without a degree, that have the backing of their entire community, creating Permaculture on a town level. (As one of a great many examples) Even Sepp Holzer says in one of his books that going to University for Master Gardener degree was a waste of time that screwed up his property.

A University or college is nothing but a drone factory IMO.

[PeterFD]

Hi Pakanohida

If you’ll forgive the presumption, you appear to be reflecting more upon how you think things should be, rather than how they actually are. However, if you are actually correct, then DJ-Studd need not worry about Diploma’s and such-like in Permaculture, he just has to SHOW them what you can do with permaculture ……….. so, no worries there then?

According to his biography in “PERMACULTURE: A Designers’ Manual”, Bill Mollison has quite a colourful history. Leaving school at 15 to help run the family bakery; followed by a spree of shark killing, chopping down trees, mill-worker, trapping and snaring wild animals (is that legal?), driving tractors, and eventually becoming a naturalist.

The first big turning point came when he joined CSIRO (Wildlife Survey Section), probably being run by a bunch of drones from a University, and decided to call himself a biologist.

The second big turning point came in 1966, when he decided to go to a drone factory/University. He must have been a good drone because HE GAINED A DEGREE IN BIO-GEOGRAPHY.

Having gained his degree, Mollison now had some credibility, and his fellow drones appointed him to the UNIVERSITY OF TASMANIA, where, in collaboration with a research student drone named David Holmgren, he developed the concept of PERMACULTURE.

Unfortunately, Mollison and Holmgren failed to develop the permaculture concept to a standard acceptable to the drones at the University of Tasmania and therefore permaculture was never accepted as part of the curriculum …………… unlike the drones who had developed Bio-Geography to an acceptable standard thus allowing Mollison to get his degree and credibility.

According to legend, Mollison and Holmgren, left the University of Tasmania in disgust, declaring they never wanted permaculture to be taught at a University ………… a bit like taking your bat and ball home because nobody wants to play with you.

The Permaculture Institute was formed in 1979 and Bill Mollison became its Executive Director ……….. and according to some, made lots of money.

So, if you want to learn from the master, the following is recommend;

Firstly get rid of any environmental violence you may have by killing a few living things and chop down a few trees.

Secondly, get yourself some credibility by doing a degree at a University. If possible, integrate so well into the University system that you’re appointed as a professor. Develop your permaculture concept at this time and then leave.

Thirdly, form a Permaculture Institute and get yourself appointed as Executive Director.

Finally, earn lots of money.

Personally, I still believe the best option is to earn enough money to buy sufficient land to support yourself/family. Make sure you have sufficient reserves to carry everyone for a few years while you develop the lifestyle you can believe in. Each system, concept, idea has merit, some more that others. Never blindly follow anyone or anything, that, most surely, is the road to hell!