Why permaculture?

[mischief]

Ban the plough and the axe

[Ludi]

Rather than ban them, I think giving people an alternative (permaculture) is of value. I don't think we'll be successful just telling people "stop doing what you're doing" without giving them a viable alternative.

[pebble]

What's wrong with an axe?

[Ludi]

I think it's symbolic rather than actually evil, the axe. It symbolizes the destruction of trees. The pruning saw, the secateurs, are more benign tools of the nurture or maintenance of trees than the axe. Even though the axe may be necessary to the cutting of trees for lumber and though the axe may be used benignly in the maintenance and nurturing of trees, that may not be the symbolic feeling behind the image of the axe, which is, probably, one of destruction and not nurture.

[matto]

The chainsaw and good selective thinning can increase the value of timber, diversity and forest structure. At least this is what I am learning from permaculture. High grading, clearing and burning of forests have let only the opportunist species succeed.

As Bill said, we all need to be loggers and conservationists. we all live in timber houses.

[Ludi]

I agree, Matto.

[Pakanohida]

we all live in timber houses.

Not all of us do, some of us are changing that.

I spent 2 hours one day explaining to children how timber construction was stupid, and the use of cob housing, or Earthships via recycled materials is not only better housing in the long term, but also way more economical.

It went over well & I could actually see they learned.

Remember, Permaculture isn't just about what is outside the walls of your house, inside the imaginary lines of your property. It's about all of us together, our environments, and how we interact with them from zone 1 outwards.

[Ludi]

I'm not convinced timber housing is necessarily stupid. Lots of folks made houses of wood and thatch. Materials which grow back relatively quickly can be sustainable.

[pebble]

I know people that have built timber framed houses that will last 1,000 years. You want to make the same claim for cob?

Using timber for housing makes sense if you have trees and no suitable cob, plastic, sand, straw etc. Use what is there.

btw, does anyone know if the work has been done on cob and earthships, and earthquakes?

[Pakanohida]

I know people that have built timber framed houses that will last 1,000 years. You want to make the same claim for cob?

Using timber for housing makes sense if you have trees and no suitable cob, plastic, sand, straw etc. Use what is there.

btw, does anyone know if the work has been done on cob and earthships, and earthquakes?

11th, 12th & 14th century cob buildings still stand despite numerous wars and actual use in Afghanistan & surrounding region.

I understand there are a number of cob buildings in Europe from the Middle Ages still in use, most though in the UK date back beyond 500 years with constant residents.

The State of Colorado did tests on Earthships and found them to be the most stable buildings in seismic areas; This testing was done when Michael Reynolds has his architects license revoked.


Cob & Earthquakes... no idea.. but they have lasted thousands of years.... including WW1 & WW2.