Somebody told me they didnt see what the fuss was about a GMO's

[mischief]

Thanks Markos,

I still remember my high school science teacher(I loved science and he was a great teacher),one thing that has always stuck is the statement that a fact is something that can be proved or disproved.
We learnt this when studying 'the correct scientific way to investigate something'- not the right wording but I cant actually remember much more on that part except exact documentation.

This is another thing that annoys me, I often hear of how data from research that shows adverse or negative reactions etc... are withheld and hidden.
Thats not good science but it seems to be a standard procedure when it interferes with the profit margins.

You are quite right in saying to research all points of view and I have not done that, but have 'found' what suits my purposes.
However, I sometimes feel that this can cause a mental ridge of confusion and leave me feeling a lack of clarification as to whether something is or is not....

My friend wanted to know why I though GMO's were a bad thing and he now has afew areas to look at.
As he is already coming from the viewpoint of 'Its not all bad', I havent bothered to provide links for the pro's side of the debate.

Knowledge is only as useful as it has been evaluated.
It isnt a good idea just to accept information with out thinking about it yourself...um myself.

I think Purplepear made a good point in saying that if the ethics level were alittle higher in the companies that do this research and development then perhaps good things could come from this....unfortunately I am not holding my breathe in anticipation.

[annette]

Is there a good side to GMOs? I must have missed it! (from a one eyed non GMO proponent)

[Pakanohida]

I can see potential in it but the way it is being applied is bastardizing the technology. We have scientists that claim to follow the 'scientific method' but they put forth the results without true verification, and without truly knowing what they are getting into, let alone what they are getting the world into.

I see more advancements coming out of traditional breeding techniques from heirloom varieties.

[mischief]

I do agree with you.
If they were just doing things like isolating the genes that had naturally developed and which made a variety more resistent to pests and diseases and introducing them to other strains of the same variety I probably would not have such a violent reaction.
This to me would have been an acceptable move.
But using this to make plants more resistent to the chemicals you want to sell is just wrong.
As weeds tend to be stronger in this respect, from my limited observations, I dont think this move would neccessarily be creating a superweed scenario.
I could of course be wrong tho.

The lack of social ethics that appears to go along with GMO R&D and marketing I think shows the true mentality of the players.
I still cannot understand why Monsanto have ever been allowed to successfully sue farmers whose fields they have infected.

[9anda1f]

Two big things concern me regarding gmo foods:

1) engineering of genetically inherent pesticides into the plant; i.e., the plant contains pesticides as part of it's genetic makeup ... kind of hard to wash off in the sink! Do they also modify for allelopathic qualities?
2) unknown effects of genetically modified organisms on humans due to lack of rigorous testing over the long term. It seems these gmo strains are quickly rushed to market without the due diligence one would expect for human consumption. Guess that's why they call them Franken-foods.

[Unmutual]

Two big things concern me regarding gmo foods:

1) engineering of genetically inherent pesticides into the plant; i.e., the plant contains pesticides as part of it's genetic makeup ... kind of hard to wash off in the sink! Do they also modify for allelopathic qualities?

As far as I know, no. The plants don't actually exude roundup, roundup can be sprayed on them and the corn/soy/rape will survive. Though I guess if they could figure out a way for the plants to put roundup into the ground, they would do it. I'm fairly sure that if a natural chemical like juglone(black walnut allelopathic chemical) could be introduced(along with an immunity to it), it wouldn't be done because then they couldn't sell roundup.

2) unknown effects of genetically modified organisms on humans due to lack of rigorous testing over the long term. It seems these gmo strains are quickly rushed to market without the due diligence one would expect for human consumption. Guess that's why they call them Franken-foods.

This is my biggest issue with GMO seed(not the companies(read: monsanto), but the seed itself). But it's the same speed that is currently being used to fast track all these medicines that are killing us. In the US we have all these commercials from lawyers looking for people that have been hurt/killed by bad medicine or bad medical implants. I just wish these lawyers would also sue the FDA too...

Whoever (President, Congress, etc.) oversees the FDA really needs to crack down on them. Many countries are already banning GMOs. Many countries don't use the same medicines that the US allows. Does anyone else feel like a guinea pig?

So to sow this up in a neat little bundle:

GMOs are not properly tested.
GMOs can transfer their untested genetics rather easily(and therefore destroying biodiversity)
Monsanto uses GMO technology to allow their herbicide(and to some extent pesticides too) to be broadly used on the crops(producing highly resistant weeds and insects..and this will end up causing plague proportions since insecticides also kill predatory insects).
GMOs don't require special labeling in our food supply(which is an issue to me because of the lack of real testing done on GMOs, that and I don't want to support GMOs with my money)

Luckily, USDA Certified Organic is labeled(and yes, I do have more faith in the USDA than I do the FDA. I also know that Organic certification is a strict and costly thing to get. You can't use GMOs with the organic certification, nor can you use most chemicals with organic farming. Heck, you can't even use pressure treated wood).

[Ludi]

GMOs don't require special labeling in our food supply

That Monsanto has actively fought labeling GMO food shows that even they don't believe their product is so fabulous. If GMO was so great, a decent ad campaign could prove it to us and then we would WANT to buy GMO food because it is so wonderful for us and the planet.

http://onewomanagainstmonsanto.wordp...odified-foods/

[Pakanohida]

Luckily, USDA Certified Organic is labeled(and yes, I do have more faith in the USDA than I do the FDA. I also know that Organic certification is a strict and costly thing to get. You can't use GMOs with the organic certification, nor can you use most chemicals with organic farming. Heck, you can't even use pressure treated wood).

No offense, but this is exactly where you FAIL.

Prior to being the Supreme Court Judge who put GW Bush in office,Clarence Thomas was Monsanto's lawyer.

The U.S. Secretary of Agriculture (Anne Veneman) was on the Board of Directors of Monsanto's Calgene Corporation.

The Secretary of Defense (Donald Rumsfeld) was on the Board of Directors of Monsanto's Searle pharmaceuticals.

The U.S. Secretary of Health, Tommy Thompson, received $50,000 in donations from Monsanto during his winning campaign for Wisconsin's governor.
The two congressmen receiving the most donations from Monsanto during the last election were Larry Combest (Chairman of the House Agricultural Committee) and Attorney General John Ashcroft. (Source: Dairy Education Board)



In short, you are being hoodwinked.

Numerous "USDA" certified Organic farms have, and do use Roundup regularly, even under organic certification, but let's not dwell on that. How about this....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christ..._b_228792.html
Former VP at Monsanto To Advise FDA Commissioner on Food Safety

In order for the FDA to determine if Monsanto's growth hormones were safe or not, Monsanto was required to submit a scientific report on that topic. Margaret Miller, one of Monsanto's researchers put the report together. Shortly before the report submission, Miller left Monsanto and was hired by the FDA. Her first job for the FDA was to determine whether or not to approve the report she wrote for Monsanto. In short, Monsanto approved its own report. Assisting Miller was another former Monsanto researcher, Susan Sechen. Deciding whether or not rBGH-derived milk should be labeled fell under the jurisdiction of another FDA official, Michael Taylor, who previously worked as a lawyer for Monsanto.


Organic and Natural Product Companies
Associated with Monsanto

• Brand Name(s): Arrowhead Mills, Bearitos, Breadshop, Celestial Seasonings, Earth's Best Baby Food, Garden of Eatin, Health Valley, Imagine Foods, Terra Chips, Westbrae, Millina's, Mountain Sun, Shari Ann's, Walnut Acres Owned By: Hain Food Group Principle Stockholders: Bank of America, Entergy Nuclear, ExxonMobil, H.J. Heinz, Lockheed Martin, Merck, Monsanto, Pfizer, Philip Morris, Walmart, Waste Mangement Inc. Significantly Owned By: Citigroup

• Brand Name(s): Cascadian Farms, Muir Glen Owned By: Small Planet Foods Principle Stockholders: General Mills Significantly Owned By: Alcoa, Chevron, Disney, Dupont, ExxonMobil, General Electric, McDonalds, Monsanto, Nike, Pepsico, Pfizer, Philip Morris, Starbucks, Target, Texas Instruments

[gardenlen]

it would be unwise to put trust in any gov' or quango gov' dept' for me organic food became corrupted when gov', men and money became involved, people unwisely pay premium prices for what is touted as organic food, when in actual fact organic grown produce should be no dearer if not even cheaper.

we need access to natural grown produce pretty much at the farm gate, that way no middle men and no manipulation.

len

[Unmutual]

Maybe I was unclear, which unfortunately is one of my bad habits. I could easily type a small book on some of these topics, but I try to keep it trimmed.

I have no faith in the FDA and a little faith in the USDA, not complete faith(maybe my statement was open to interpretation). The USDA does do some things right, and I'm still sticking to my opinion that USDA certified organic is still a better system than 'normal' commercial agriculture. It's not perfect, but it is at least a step in the right direction. Glyphosate(roundup) is not supposed to be used in organic farming, plain and simple. I'm not naive enough to think that it doesn't happen, or that people don't cheat(or bribe inspectors).

The FDA on the other hand, does nothing right and I mean absolutely nothing. I have not heard of one good thing that the FDA has done. Taking a product off the market after it allowed a bad product onto the market in the first place is not a good thing.

I could probably expand on this further(this is my 4th rewrite), but hijacking this thread is not my intention.