Anyone here use the " Back To Eden" gardening method..

[Pakanohida]

No, that's true, amendments don't necessarily last long.

But I'm given to understand that once the nutrients are in balance, per Albrecht (something I've read much of in Acres USA magazine) they'll pretty much stay there as long as you keep adding humus, and don't do anything drastic.

This is a lesson to be learned from nature itself. Look at any natural system that has been untouched by humans for a century or more. It's in balance, and won't go out. It needs no amendments.

That is why, in my opinion, compost is the fix-all. It just takes longer... compost won't remedy a low calcium situation so fast as an application of lime. It all works together.

But as in "Back to Eden," the consistent application of organic cover, and the proper decay conditions, results in balanced soil after sufficient time.

I am in agreement with my Surgeon Colleague.

When I started learning about the massive inputs of organic matter in the US prior to European colonization in "Edible Forest Gardens Vol1" I was utterly dumbfounded by the sheer amount of waste animals would drop into a forest. Picture if you will a flock of pigeons what is so thick it blots out the sun, then they all roost for an hour or so evacuating their bowels to the forest floor. Audobun found as much as 3" of bird waste dropped in a single sitting by the pigeons.

Think about that a moment... so much life it obscures the vision of the sun, then suddenly 3" of white poop all over a forest floor. That signals to me that organic matter can be handled by a healthy forest in very large amounts. However the area needs to be healthy, and that is pretty rare on Earth now.

[Finchj]

The EFG books are full of amazing information aren't they? I use the second volume constantly and have started rereading the first, although I'm interrupted at the moment with "Teaming with Microbes." Which is good, but I'm actually surprised at how much was covered in my other materials (that and some of their recommendations I cringe at, like replacing your soil!). Anyway...

I too agree with the Dirt Surgeon. One reason we did use fertilizer was the speed. Our P levels were so low that they are in danger of falling off the chart. We thought the benefits out weighed the costs at that point. However, we do have a considerable amount of our site left that has not been amended with either lime or fertilizer. We will be seeding those with a laundry list of native nitrogen fixers and some more dynamic accumulators. Rod, if you want to see a list of what we ordered to get an idea as to what is supposed to thrive here, you can click this link.

I also decided to watch the Back to Eden film. I thought it was good, although I was a little dismayed that he called his gardening style permaculture. I didn't see any interplanting, there was an obsession with "weeds"... There didn't seem to be any design going on. Just the application of wood chips. Although he was recycling his organic matter, he was still bringing in fertility without any discussion of cover cropping or the use of other green manure type plants.

I guess I was just surprised that he used the word permaculture. Was it organic? Yes; are his results impressive and worth sharing? Yes! But permaculture is more than laying down wood chips and disavowing biocides. If I were wealthy enough, I'd sponsor him to take a PDC and see just how much more productive he could make his land!

[Pakanohida]

I also decided to watch the Back to Eden film. I thought it was good, although I was a little dismayed that he called his gardening style permaculture. I didn't see any interplanting, there was an obsession with "weeds"... There didn't seem to be any design going on. Just the application of wood chips. Although he was recycling his organic matter, he was still bringing in fertility without any discussion of cover cropping or the use of other green manure type plants.

I guess I was just surprised that he used the word permaculture. Was it organic? Yes; are his results impressive and worth sharing? Yes! But permaculture is more than laying down wood chips and disavowing biocides. If I were wealthy enough, I'd sponsor him to take a PDC and see just how much more productive he could make his land!

There is a lot of that going on though sadly. Not just by farmers / gardeners but a whole slew of people out there calling stuff Permaculture. I don't feel qualified to teach yet, still working on my PDC and all, as a result I send people to YouTube to search, "Permaculture" when I get tongue tied. I need to start making business cards that give directions to PRI's main webpage. I will not send people to anywhere else.

[TheDirtSurgeon]

I was a bit put off by the film as well... the one guy acting like "The Lord" was "putting this out there now." Say what? Organic matter decays into soil with help from fungi, bacteria, critters, etc.; and this is a new concept requiring divine revelation? I certainly applaud them for spreading the message of organic agriculture to their target audience, however. You do have to reach people in their own lexicon, their own semantics.

And agreed; not anywhere near permaculture. Mulch and chemical-free are kiddie stuff.