Not just one day - February! In my defence I have read the Designer's manual cover to cover twice (just for fun). And I only have to stop the spammers from polluting the board with porn. Not save the world through permaculture. I'll get to that AFTER my PDC.
Yeah Eco, you're not doing permaculture right!
Where are you doing your course?
No one has observed yet. If that's intentional, I tip my hat to thee.Originally Posted by Pakanohida
sure man, like i can advise on obstetrics if i've read the fkn manual.
bullshit.
there is a massive hole in your cred,,,,,you function ( observably and demonstrably ) as a thread input - you do more than clean the shit off the walls.....
why have mods that are not systems designers?
could this possibly give rise to a forum that looks like a gardeners club.
i suggest it could.
the capacity of creative moderation is not lost on this poster.
"tantum pro silva"
The mods are volunteers. I feel grateful we have any at all, and don't feel the need to have them also meet some abstract criteria regarding permaculture.
Kimbo I'm not sure where you are coming from. Am I a designer? Of course. I design stuff all the time, using permaculture and other tools. If you mean am I a PDC graduate designer who advertises and charges as such, then no. But I do hope you aren't saying that the only way to be doing the real work in the world is via the PDC?
I know eco from this forum and the idea that she would read Bill's manual and not integrate that into her other knowledge and experience is just insulting.
"the kids that can not see past the basic models are the ones that don't get the lesson,,,,remember the difference between Permaculture theory ( where observation is critical to understanding of systems) and Permaculture Pulp as practised by the herd.....where they think they are 'observing' and tout their 'observations' and maybe even their enhanced capacity for observation; whilst just not seeming to notice that they are still net consumers, still part of the problem!!"
I see these accusations of permaculture alot, but to be honest they don't match the people I know where I live. Maybe I'm lucky in that sense, but most people I know who use the word permaculture are walking the walk.
I'm sure that there are people practicing pulp or trendy permaculture, and thus perverting the course of pc saving the world or whatever. But it doesn't really bother me. I have different expectations, which are that of course the mainstream will co-opt permaculture, and then they will be partially colonised by it, and the next thing will arise from the fringe to pull them in the right direction. Will this save the world? Of course not, there is no saving the worlds, we are far beyond that. I practice permaculture (and other things) because it brings me joy, because it's the right thing to do, and because it may offer me some comfort and even survival when the shit hits the fan. I also think pc sets us up for the best chance of transitioning, but it;s not the only tool we have by any means.
Having said that, I also applaud the Lawtons and Mollisons who are still trying to save humanity. I find them inspiring and appreciate anything at this point which nourishes my soul in that way. I also think that they provide an essential service in setting up a tipping point within certain parts of society.
Hi Kimbo, it's good to see you again. I'm reading Treasure Island to my 6 year old at the moment, I love the way the old classics dance around with the language. Reading your posts can be a little like that at times.
Now, as for true permaculture designers, I reckon they could be a rarity the like of hens teeth. I also suspect it is something that only a handful will ever master. Even fewer would have time to hang around on a chat forum! The problem is that not all of us have the basic personality structure required. Most of 'us' were born before the idea of permaculture was first discussed and so there is a lot of conditioning in the way. Lord help the Y-genners. I don't know that permaculture design is something that can be taught - certainly not en masse.
I've spent a couple of years coming in to the forum now and I wouldn't have said it was a serious designers forum - there are some great discussions occasionally, but mostly they are pretty banal and superficial. I'm happy for moderators to just filter out the spam and hate. I think it is up to the participants to come up with helpful and useful posts and discussion topics.
It seems to me that some people come here looking for a bit of an introduction to permaculture and I think there should be some space for that. But I also think we as the users, the people already introduced, need to get down to the nitty-gritty, folks like you Kimbo (who know everything) need to enlighten the rest of us.
And stop tarring all Mandala garden's with the same brush!
I don't know if anything I do could be considered permaculture. Perhaps a little bit is no better than the whole hog but I'm doing what I can with the skills and resources I have right now.
I've lost my train of thought and I have jobs to do - see if I can get back to it later.
Peace out man.
You cannot solve a problem with the same level of consciousness that created it - Einstein
www.greentemple.com.au
I disagree since both are the building blocks of the their value. To suggest observation is not the most basic lesson then you as someone with a supposed PDC has utterly lost the prime lesson in design much like a color blind child trying to see the difference between 2,3,4 & 6.
People have to start somewhere with Permaculture, and sadly, your attitude towards people learning is a negative thing, unbecoming of any teacher or designer.
Have a happy & healthy new year, I'm out of this conversation.
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