Looking for cheapest Trompe Designs

[Pakanohida]

- So you pump the water up hill, store it (existing dam? 7000gal+ water tank?) and then release it down the hill to create air pressure. It's already impossible for your trompe to produce as many kJ of energy as the wind was exerting on the windmill blades, due to the losses of the windmill pump. So if your most desired output is compressed air, a windmill-driven air pump would be at least as efficient, very likely more efficient. It would take drastically less space and physical infrastructure, and would thereby have less points at which it can fail.

However, what IF (what if angels sat on pin heads!) what IF the same windmill is tied into both the compressor, and the battery back up? What if I actually gain more water as I go down hill, then I can pump uphill? Pumping uphill in my case is purely for water recirculation, not to drive the trompe itself. The trompe is a side benefit (note multiple uses here) from a stream, and can actually wind up collecting power from multiple sources then in-addition to the trompe.

The trompe funnel & how much water it allows in would also indicate how much water comes out the other end, stream flow then is negated and controlled variable, and since pumps can go say anywhere from 20 to 80gph with as much as 40' of head pressure using as little as 24watts of Solar energy; my solar panel has over 30watts left over. I can now recapture air, and water energy in addition to solar in this setup.

So I don't see myself converting it into less energy, I see myself converting it into multiple types of energy. It's the permaculture way!!!

[andrew_k]

However, what IF (what if angels sat on pin heads!) what IF the same windmill is tied into both the compressor, and the battery back up?

Then that windmill would provide half the amount of energy to the compressor and the strator as it would to either alone, assuming the load of both devices is equal.

There's no free lunch, you can't put two energy drains on a single source and not expect twice the energy drain.

40' head off a 24W pump? That is seriously impressive. You have such a pump?
Purecajan's original spec didn't include incorporating and existing flowing stream, doing that you add some propery energy capture to your energy transfer/conversion scheme.

I look forward to seeing how this/these project(s) progress

[Pakanohida]

trompe's in general work off of a constant water source & the amount of air from venturi principle far outweighs the amount of energy the pump would use.

Personally, I think I am done with daydream mode, I want to make this NOW, but I don't have the spare parts and things in place to make this yet. It IS part of my master design though already, and between the PDC course, the spring planting, the damage from the last storm (lost another chicken tractor), and current projects I need to reel myself in and knock out projects.

[Wetrocks]

Pakanohida:

By way of introduction I have been working with Trompes for two years now. I have built four of them. Three are in service at mine drainage treatment sites. The fourth is my test facility.

The amount of pressure that a Trompe can develop is limited to 0.43 psi per vertical foot of the return (discharge) pipe. So if you want to generate 43 psi then the vertical length of the return pipe must be 100 feet. Because of this limitation Trompes are best suited for low pressure applications.

Wetrocks

[Wetrocks]

Pakanohida

By way of introduction I have built 4 tromps. Three are in mine drainage treatment plants and one is my test facility.

The air pressure that is possible from a trompe is determined by multiplying the vertical length of the return pipe by 0.43 psi per foot. If you want to generate 43 psi then your trompe must have a 100 foot vertical return pipe. This is often the limiting factor in trompe design. If you have a source of flowing water and a low pressure application then a trompe can be a very attractive alternative.

Wetrocks

[Pakanohida]

Trompe example in action.

http://youtu.be/oxJTC77PADQ

I made that pump 20 years ago, the air is supplied by a tromp (airlift in reverse) in the stream beside the pump. Air gets sucked down a 4 inch wide pipe to about 10 ft under and then comes up a 3/4 inch pipe to splash on my niece.

[Pakanohida]

Water backed up behind the 660 foot wide dam swirls down through these pipes carrying air with it. When the water reaches the bottom of the shaft, it is diverterted into a 1021 foot long horizontal tunnel by a steel sheathed concrete cone.

This tunnel is 20 feet wide and 26 feet high, at the far end a bulge in the ceiling increases the height to 42 feet. The rushing water slows down in this tunnel and the air collects along the roof at approximately 120 p.s.i. A 298 foot tail shaft by 22 feet in diameter returns the water to the surface. Once at the surface it continues down the Montreal River.

http://charleshtaylor.blogspot.com/2...ed-chutes.html

[Pakanohida]

Cajn, perhaps this will help more.

http://blog.hasslberger.com/2007/06/...ower_plan.html

[purecajn]

Now I like that

[Farside]

Pakanohida

By way of introduction I have built 4 tromps. Three are in mine drainage treatment plants and one is my test facility.

The air pressure that is possible from a trompe is determined by multiplying the vertical length of the return pipe by 0.43 psi per foot. If you want to generate 43 psi then your trompe must have a 100 foot vertical return pipe. This is often the limiting factor in trompe design. If you have a source of flowing water and a low pressure application then a trompe can be a very attractive alternative.

Wetrocks

Any idea how we can calculate the dimensions of the intake pipe based on the volume of compressed air we need?

Like you said, length and pressure is easy. I haven't found anything to do with air volume.

BTW it is possible to get 1000psi from a smaller trompe other than a really long pipe and that's by using a Hydraulic intensifier: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_intensifier