I figure a lot of people live in areas where running water isn't an option. This would give them a way of harnessing power with the least amount/if any financial investment. Also make a good water well pump. Constantly circulating water up out of the shaft, collecting the air, water flows back down shaft yet villagers have the option to stick a jug under the water returning.
In the end, we all work for ourselves.
Eh? What r u trying to do? Am I right thinking you are going to pump water up hill using a windmill then run it downhill to make compressed air store the air then use the air to make electricity? Far out isn't that the long way round ? What energy loss with each step and what setup cost with each step? What about a windmill, big tank and a hydro generator or just a wind generator and battery?
Correct ppp, well only if it can move water at a high enough rate. Set up cost sould be zero, as it'll be made from scrap (can't help people with no funds if you have to always buy everything. There is no hydrogen generator as ther trompe creates the compressed air through natural processes. Since the air collection is extremely low tech with little to no upkeep then I'd assume this is the first energy source you'd want to use up before turning too your battery reserves. In turn you can take small motors from old broken childrens toys and use it too power you lights (use the air to spin the axle which generates a charge). Running LED's should be no problem.
Also while the wind turbine is pumping water one could attach a generator too it's shaft. This allows you to dbl your energy reserves at the cost of only 1 energy input. I don't see this supplying enough reserve to run a vehicle, but for home needs it should work. Even if the gen has to be removed because of too much resistance, the energy reserves gained from the tromp would still be enough to power the home is regulated.
Course, until a working model is created we won't know if the centrifical pump will move enough water. I'm leaning toward the verticle turbines. Get an old rear car axle and turn it up on its side. Build your blades and cut aout your mounts. Bolt everything onto the axle using the same 5 star bolt pattern. centrifugal pumps arn't that difficult too make. There are a number of hacks available, or maybe you can salvage one from an old diswasher or even the water pump from the same vehicle you salvaged the rear axle from. The "big tank" is one of my sticking points. Haven't thought of an item to salvage for it nor have I sat down and figured how large a air storage will be needed. If underground the container walls could be very thin since the earth will supply the containg strength. You might be able to get away with using an old cal. king waterbed bladder.
It's just difficult to hack this thing together going on nothing but a design seen drawn on a wall by Mr. Mollison. Even online searches of trompe videos lead me too pulsar and ram pumps. Hence, why I posted here for designs. Leaves one with plenty of theory, but no working design to go off of.
In the end, we all work for ourselves.
Cajun good on you for your interest
Was taught in my apprenticeship just over 12 main 'trompe' designs, with many offshoots from each of these. The main hard work is in the storage chamber, and excavating the water storage cistern, but the filter systems,'trompe' walls of the cistern are relatively easy.
They were originally made to oxygenate and filter these water storage cisterns in the Middle East, then the Romans saw how effective they were at allowing people to rebel effectively against them.
Will be excavating for some cisterns next year with integrated 'trompe' systems, and anyone interested in learning, feel free to contact. Will be documenting all of it, in step by step instructional videos, so when they are ready will post here I guess and people can get a copy. Water storage cisterns as part of keyline design will also be a focus.
My grandfather always told me that the EROEI of 'trompe' is 2nd only to easy accessible,high quality oil, and there isn't much of that about.
As far as its role in energy future, in my opinion it should play a frontline role, with solar and wind just as back up....it has far more uses,and the wastes aren't really wastes. The downside when I have been asked over the years "If it is so damn good then why isn't it being used?"...ultimately there is no money in it, and for those who think in way that to them money can magically make energy resources appear this is a nightmare. It can't be patented because they have been around for thousands of years, and if they could be done then then they can be done now.
Have always been surprised in the lack of real dedicated interest in 'trompes', I guess Angelo DiPietro has wondered the same thing about his engine.
Concerning the Trompe patent. I was under the impression, (according too Mr. Mollison) that the oil industry bought up all patents concerning the rights too commercialize air technology back in the early 70's, afterwhich all books concerning said technology were checked out of local libraries across N. America and never returned. Sounded like something the oil backers would do so never questioned whether reliable. So lets see, a patent is good for how long? 30 or so years. and I see a new air powered car is being commercialized in France and germany so patent rights would be ending right about now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY1KNxhd2Zs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-A3XHFT5qc Let's see how long it takes for these to be sold in America.
In the end, we all work for ourselves.
The second one is the real solution, you dont need two tons to move one man, can use ten kilos for one ton or two but the security or insurance have to die. And its fine with me. Die insurance parisite die die da...
Just mu mantra
Sorry its just so many parasitic jobs today starting from politics etc...
Permaculture Designers Manual, page 505, figure 13.4
Or are you looking to make the funnel part?
Let's see with this system we can run:
A car ((300 miles is enough for my vehicle))
a freezer
a refrigerator
generate electricity
increase oxygen in the water making it healthier
pneumatic tools
free ice
sell the air off to medical facilities
and I think I missed a grip of uses since Chicago and Paris both ran on compressed air systems made by Trompe Designs in 1935.
For one moment, think of what this world would of been like had we not walked away from this kind of water technology.
Cajn, this is something I am interested in as well, and I think I found some ways to implement it here. I have at least a 30' drop off the back of the house between the house, and the next bench / major tier down.
I wonder if the water also being vortex turned like Schauberger would suggest have any benefit... ..the flowforms alone do with regards to oxygen levels and increased biological activity year round.
Do you mean use vortex piping on the drop? Forcing the water to spin as it drops? Or the interlocking spad design? Looking for the complete build.
In the end, we all work for ourselves.
After the funnel I would envision a vortex forcing the spin. Would be nice if the exit was a flow form. I am brainstorming at the moment while getting some friends involved (and pointing them here).Originally Posted by purecajn
Also, it isn't that the trompe design is patented, its too ancient to be. What they bought out was the compressed car company technologies, but that doesn't mean it cant be reverse engineered and re-done.
Would be nice to find some of the old compressed air magazines.
Last edited by Pakanohida; 06-12-2011 at 09:09 AM.
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