Gley (???)

[cassio]

Bill Mollison mentions the use of gley to seal leaking ponds: "We put green sappy material right across [the pond]... . We pack it down.... We cover all this with sand or plastic or old carpets or a combination of all of those. Then it starts to ferment. ... As soon as it goes slimy, you fill it with water and it fills without any trouble, and will never leak again. It is called gley."

Has anyone ever tried this? I mean, for real; no "in theory", please.
Thanks.

[purecajn]

green sappy material? care to elaborate?

[Pakanohida]

Gley is a material used to seal clay ponds. However, I am with Sepp Holzer, and I don't believe in the need for such things. Natrual ponds, built & tamped properly work great.

[sweetpea]

this is from permies.com:

"GLEY

Related to the word 'glaze', a gley is like a biological plastic membrane such as is found in bogs, which is formed by a bacterial process that requires anaerobic conditions.

Traditionally a technique for sealing ponds and dams, there is potential for the process to be adapted for human-made structures. The Russian-devised version for dams uses a slurry of animal waste (pig manure) applied over the inner base and walls of the dam in multiple, thin layers, which is then itself covered with vegetable organic matter such as grass, leaves, waste paper, cardboard, etc. This is all then given a final layer of soil which is tamped down and the mixture is left for several weeks to allow the (anaerobic) bacteria to complete their task, at which time the dam is ready for flooding.

Gleys have the potential to revolutionise water storage capacity in regions with hightly porous soils. An aquaculture industry in otherwise unsuitable areas scould be one of the benefits of this technique.

Unlike bentonite clay, gley materials are virtually cost-free and are comprised of 'wastes' which would normally be discarded in the normal course of operations. Also, plastic and rubber dam liners may actually be dependent on the same anaerobic process for their own continued effectiveness rather than their lack of holes or punctures * ie, it is the anaerobic layer created below them rather than their own membranous qualities which prevent water seepage in the long term. "

----

Where I live they use bentonite clay. Carpets are really full of disgusting chemicals, and I'm not sure I'd want to line a pond with them.

[Pakanohida]

Gley is actually a type of soil made by anaerobic processes.. is a soil that formed under conditions of saturation, flooding, or ponding long enough during the growing season to develop anaerobic conditions in the upper part of the soil layer.

However, I will admit I was thinking of betonite when writing the earlier post. Oops.

Lastly, I don't trust other Permaculture forums, especially ones in the US where topics to promote hybrids & gmo science occur regularly.


Oh yeah, I guess it isn't the last thing. Did you know Carpets are actually massively or can be massively recycled now? I watched an hour long episode about it last year on the Green Channel.

[sweetpea]

Pakanohida, there are American Permaculture forums that promote GMO? that's horrible! Which ones?

You know, symthetic carpets are terribly toxic, and while we probably shouldn't let them into landfills, they are full of things we don't want to live with. Check this out:

http://www.care2.com/greenliving/saf...tallation.html

http://www.jhu.edu/jhumag/0900web/home.html


"(VOCs), such as 4-phenyl cyclohexene, toluene, and styrene. VOCs can cause a variety of health problems, including eye and respiratory tract irritation, headaches, and dizziness. Some of these chemicals are suspected or known carcinogens."

[Pakanohida]

Not all are, there is a very large movement for recycled carpets now since they can go cradle to cradle.


This is one of those things like the fiasco on that Permies.com forum website with regards to using newspaper and cardboard in the garden. So many people piped up, or toked up, who the hell knows and flipped out claiming all sorts of chemicals used in paper and cardboard making which now is utterly a falsehood. What it comes down to is you need to just be sure of the materials. If it is a toxic carpet, get rid of it. If it is not, use it.

Have you seen this in regards to making gley?

http://www.rexresearch.com/dewpond/dewpond.htm

The above link is how I am sealing my current project pond, along with a dash of Sepp Holzer knowledge, and a pinch of my own experimentation / observations of my property.

[garnede]

Where I live there are some areas with clay and some without. Most farmers I know who build ponds and don't hit clay seal their ponds with a thick coating of chicken manure. Spray it on give it a few weeks and then fill the pond. It is probably using the same process as the Gley, without knowing the reason it works.

[Pakanohida]

Where I live there are some areas with clay and some without. Most farmers I know who build ponds and don't hit clay seal their ponds with a thick coating of chicken manure. Spray it on give it a few weeks and then fill the pond. It is probably using the same process as the Gley, without knowing the reason it works.

Hmm, makes sense, would be interesting to watch them build one like that.

Its amazing to me all these ways to build ponds, and when I was a child living in & or near NYC, there were only 3 ways to make a pond. Cement, pond liner, or pre-fab.. I am so happy for the internet and all this knowledge, discussions, etc about it. What wonderfully dangerous times!