Chicken lice

[sun burn]

My hen is having a dust bath every day and the little ones have started too. What can I do deal with the lice - assuming its lice. And what about the chicken pen?

[ebunny]

We put lime in with the bedding and that seems to work for the most part. Having said that, we just had a bad patch and so I treated them with a powder as a once off and that seems to have done the trick (we still have bites on us though - can we roll in lime perhaps??)

[sun burn]

ebunny, you should have a shower every day :-)

But thanks for the lime tip. I will do that. I guess dad will know how much i should put in their pen.

The thing is, these chickens don't like to be picked up so catching them will be tricky, even inside the cage. Any tips about applying it?

[matto]

From http://www.veryediblegardens.com/iveg/chooks

Maintaining Chook Health - Naturally
Think about planting herbs and flowers next to your chicken run that the chickens can selectively eat to keep you themself healthy. Some recommended plants are:

Comfrey – Wonderful herb for your organic garden. Perennial, large green leaves, grows in sun or partial shade, plant from a root cutting. Chop up and feed to chooks regularly. It is also a compost activator (see VEG compost worksheet). Comfrey has a vigorous root system, so grow it away from your veggie patch.

Nasturtium – Great for your chooks general health and it repels insect pests.

Nettles – Helps increase egg production and is fattening for your chickens – a great winter food. Nettle is also a compost activator.

Rue – Good chook medicine and insect repellent. Dry and scatter through chook house to repel pests. Wear gloves when handling this herb as it can cause some skin irritation.

Southernwood and Wormwood – Insect repellents and medicinal. Grow wormwood away from other plants as its roots inhibit growth. Good to dry and scatter through chook house.

Tansy – Attractive fern-like leaves with yellow flowers. Tansy is a vigorous grower that repels pest insects. Dry and scatter leaves through chookhouse. Tansy is also a compost activator.

Rosemary – Insect repellent. Chop and scatter in chookhouse.

Worming your chooks
Regular garlic treatment is the most popular natural method.

Place 1-2 cloves (per bird) of crushed garlic into your chooks drinking water, for several days in a row.

Other methods – add a little apple cider vinegar to the drinking water or any of the following - nasturtium seeds, grated carrot, wormwood tips, mustard or pumpkin seeds. If your chicken has worms and needs urgent attention please visit a pet supplies centre to buy worming liquid.

I was reading here the other day that chooks just love rolling around in coffee grounds...

[ebunny]

I shake about half a cup into a bucket of sugar cane mulch and then replace the old mulch in the nesting area. I don't put anything on the chickens themselves. When I did the one off treatment with the poweder though, I just sprinkled a bit on their backs as they walked past. They didn't seem phased.

And thanks for the advice, I'll try showering EVERY day (grin)

[mischief]

SHouldnt the dust baths they have deal with any flea/ lice infestations?
Thanks for the link, it looks really interesting so I've bookmarked it to look into later on.

[ebunny]

Sun Burn

I also have many of those plants that Matto mentioned around the roost and I'm not sure if they alone will do the trick. I suspect its a combo deal, and that on top of their dust baths.

[sun burn]

How do i know if my chickens need worming?

About all the herbs, they won't grow here except perhaps in winter. I live in teh tropics. Its too wet for them or too hot. I will get some comfrey though.

When i sprinkled a bit of lime on her old nest, i then went and put some on the dirt where she does her dust bath. I will be interested to see if she has a bath tomorrow. I moved her nest to a new spot and put lime on the old straw.

Mischief, I think teh dust bath is an attempt to deal with the infestation but i don't think its working well enough. Its like one might use talcom powder instead of washing one's hair. It doesn't really do the job but may be the best you can do under the circumstances.

[dannyboy]

sun burn are you saying they have lice or are you assuming they have lice because they are dust bathing?

[sun burn]

I've seen the hen pickign things of her legs quite often and she is bathing a lot. How often should they bath if they haven't got lice. Also i've got something crawling on me. I don't know what it is. Its small and so far hasn't bitten me but its in my hair. I thought it might be baby spiders but they've hung around and when i went into the chook pen today i again felt these thigns crawling on my legs. I've seen them but they are too tiny to see properly. I squash them when i can see them. The little ones have also started dust bathing.

[dannyboy]

sorry sunburn i'm only fairly new to having chooks but I found Alana Moore's book 'Backyard Poultry Naturally' full of helpful information, including lice infestation, which I borrowed from the library. My chooks dustbath daily around lunchtime.

[purplepear]

Think about diatomatious earth as a solution - it does work.
http://www.mtsylviadiatomite.com.au/diatomite-products/

[pippimac]

Chooks love dust baths, lice or not. Dust bathing helps control lice, but tossing a bit of FOOD GRADE diatomaceous earth in the dust bath area and in the nesting boxes will really do a number on them.
Chook lice don't bite people, but it can feel pretty gross if you discover them wandering all over you...
Unless you take a really close look a the chook's poo, you probably won't know if they have worms. I'd just presume they do, and about monthly, add a good dose of garlc to their mash and cider vinegar to their water. Don't do it too often though: the vinegar knocks out the good gut flora too.
I dunno about ducks, but I imagine the same routine applies. Any duck people with parasite advice?

[ebunny]

Are you sure bird lice don't bite people because my husband and I have bites that are itchy and can be traced back to the chicken coop....

[pippimac]

purplepear posted first...I'll say it again, try DE.
ebunny, NZ chook mites don't bite, but you may have something different in Oz. Also, some people have skin reactions to things without being bitten. I have seen flea infestations in chook houses too.

[sun burn]

Lots to respond to.

Ebunny, I think the chook lice don't bite people because lately i've been crawling with something and its not bitten me yet. Its awful when they are in your hair, especially at bedtime. Where did you hear about using lime? Is this a known remedy. Obviously you haven't noticed any negative effects. It seems like a good solution, no?

Others. Is there something wrong with using lime? I haven't got diametacious earth, I'd have to go out and buy some.

Danny, you've left things a bit open. What does she say about treating them for lice? I read a poulty book that talked about dust baths too but no one has said it was normal/good for them to bathe everyday. If the dust doesn't actually get rid of the lice, I would think its not as satisfactory as getting rid of them. I imagine the unpleasant feeling on me is similar to what it would be on a chicken otherwise they wouldn't bother trying to pick them off and bathing in dust.

Yes I reckon ebunny's bites might be fleas since Sydney is bad for fleas.

[pippimac]

Give lime a go, it works along similar lines to DE, just not as hardcore. Clean out the shed first, sweep the walls down, replace the nesting box material and floor litter, then chuck lime everywhere.
Just thought though, might lime 'set' a dustbath if it got wet? I wouldn't want to ruin the chooks bathing spots...

[dannyboy]

Sorry sunburn, it was simply a book recommendation and as it is now back at the library i can't answer you question. PP is knowledgeable guy though and all the answers listed so far sound like what i've previously read so... good luck!

[adrians]

purple, what grade of diatomatious earth should we use (did I miss it?)

[stez]

In her 'Chook Book', Jackie French recommends that some derris dust be added once a week to the spot where they dust-bathe. She also says that they can be dusted with a mixture of one part derris powder to one part talcum powder - hold the chook upside down and shake the powder well into the feathers.

To answer the question about chooks with worms - Ms French indicates that afflicted chooks will have frothy or blood-stained droppings and have dirty bums.

[paradisi]

dust baths are essential

a home remedy Ive heard for all sorts of chook problems is crush a clove of garlic in their water - but you should change the water at least once a day with the garlic in it

http://forum.backyardpoultry.com/ is an excellent resource and if you poke throught there and find something stick it in here for the rest of us

[eco4560]

Hey sunburn - did you end up finding a solution? Mine have got lice due to all the wet weather recently and I'm trying to work out what to do. There's no dust to bathe in because everything is sloppy.

[sun burn]

No i didn't do anything else. We've still got the dust bath in the driveway and its what they do.

The chicken house is a bit damp though and i am thinking it needs to made drier somehow although the chooks don't spend much time on the ground. More sawdust and straw.

I reckon the best thing might be to discuss it with a vet or a poultry farmer. And if you do, please tell us what they said.

[Susan Girard]

Some new research suggests that Derris dust (rotenone) may be indicated in Parkinson's Disease, so its another botanical pesticide h I'm steering clear of.
I have been told WD40 works well when sprayed on the perches etc in the coop, I presume it covers the lice and causes them to suffocate... I don't think it is meant to be a topical treatment actually on the chooks though!

[sun burn]

If WD 40 works, then so would a coating of oil, wouldn't it?

[Grasshopper]

White wash the roosts and pine shavings

http://www.backyardchickens.com/web/viewblog.php?id=1560-Food_Grade_DE

[Kerrick]

At the farm I trained at this summer, we had a severe hit of bird mites in our chicken coop. We were losing the young ones—they were getting too weak. We were finding dead adolescent chickens with signs of anemia, their bodies just crawling with mites. The problem? The coop was dark, built from natural materials, and all the perches were of wood. The mites were living in the crevices and crawling across the wood perches at night to get to the chickens. We observed that the mites didn't crawl on or live in non-porous surfaces, and they avoided sunlight. What finally ended the infestation was removing the wood perches and replacing them with free-standing PVC ones with their legs in buckets of water so the mites couldn't crawl on them, and replacing part of the roof with clear greenhouse plastic to admit sunlight. That and adding dustbaths with DE.

[DonHansford]

Just so you don't get confused - there is no such thing in Australia as "Food Grade" Diatomaceous Earth. That is a marketing term used in the USA, not here.

You want ultra-fine grade DE (<15 microns) for insecticidal use. It is sold in bulk as Absorba-Cide, but may be re-packaged for sale in smaller quantities. Under that brand-name, it is a BFA approved organic input.

[Stingray]

Lots to respond to.

Ebunny, I think the chook lice don't bite people because lately i've been crawling with something and its not bitten me yet. Its awful when they are in your hair, especially at bedtime. Where did you hear about using lime? Is this a known remedy. Obviously you haven't noticed any negative effects. It seems like a good solution, no?

Others. Is there something wrong with using lime? I haven't got diametacious earth, I'd have to go out and buy some.

Danny, you've left things a bit open. What does she say about treating them for lice? I read a poulty book that talked about dust baths too but no one has said it was normal/good for them to bathe everyday. If the dust doesn't actually get rid of the lice, I would think its not as satisfactory as getting rid of them. I imagine the unpleasant feeling on me is similar to what it would be on a chicken otherwise they wouldn't bother trying to pick them off and bathing in dust.

Yes I reckon ebunny's bites might be fleas since Sydney is bad for fleas.

We've had a few outbreaks of lice over the years .. and i tend to notice it when i've collected the eggs and renewed their straw beds .. can feel them crawlin all over me .. lol.. they dont bite.. but it gives me the creeps.. lol - so i end up goin for an extra HOT shower to kill em all :)
I will completely remove all the straw from their nests when i find lice .. and then lime both the old straw (now on a garden bed) and the new straw plus a good handful thrown about their pen :)
.. i dont bother with the birds unless I find a major outbreak .. but doing it this way i tend to catch it before it gets that serious ..
-Daz

[sun burn]

That's interesting because you are the second person who has mentioned using lime. This suggests that the idea is out there somewhere as an idea. Perhaps next time someone goes to the vet they could ask them about the use of lime for controlling lice.

I know that feeling about having them crawling all over you. I have had that and you can see the little buggers. They are quite easy to catch and squash, not like fleas. It feels worst when you have them in your hair.

Alas no hot shower tonight. No sunshine, just rain rain rain all day. I"d like a hot shower though no lice to worry about today.

[Stingray]

I got told to use lime by the local (well .. local back then) produce place we got our hay/feed from .. had a major lice outbreak in that pen back then
I think because I do try to renew the hay/bedding in the chook tractor regularly the lice dont have a chance to build up,
that and that every month or so the tractor gets moved to a new vegi bed for them to turn over as well :)
Pity no hot water .. solar hot water system i guess? :)
- Daz

[eco4560]

I read lime elsewhere also and I have ready access to that and not DE so that's what I used. It helped a bit, but eventually we had a few dry days, they got fresh bedding and the lice just disappeared on their own.

[toolworx]

Interesting info in here.
Ok what I know about Lice and mites.. We had a bad run with Mites and lice in out chooks.
First thing of a morning when the chooks are let out Spray the chook house with diesel making sure you get it on the perches and in any cracks. Lice/Mites will hide in the cracks.
Clean out nesting boxes and remove straw from the floor. we burnt it all. Spray the ground and re straw same with nesting boxes when the diesel has dried.
Sulfur will help Keep the mites away. Mites where out main problem. We did not want to but had to Nuke the chooks with a ROTENONE powder as they where loosing weight and egg production had dropped off.
Hope that was helpful.

Now For a Question. We made some garlic water. Really strong, We got the flower stalks and broke about 6 into short lengths and put them in a jar with hot water. it fermented and has been sitting there about 3 months.
Will it be safe to dilute and add to the chook water?
I will be growing garlic and will harvest some leaves for them to munch on later.
Thanks for reading and In advance for the help. :)

[sun burn]

Gee diesel seems pretty full on.

In my book "raising ducks" which i've finally bought, this is what it says about treatments for lice and mites. Though none of this addresses your query about garlic.

"Various treatments that have been suggested over the years include diatomaceous earth, olive oil, 50 per cent organic apple cider and water solution, pulverised dried tobacco leaves, and wood ashes. There are various commercial insecticidal preparations available from feed stores or poultry supply distributors, including enzyme-containing lice and mite sprays, malathion, permethrin and sevin. To be effective these products need to be worked into the feathers of the head, neck, wings, upper tail, back and vent. When dusting or spraying with an insecticide, carefully follow the manufacturers directions. Extreme caution should be taken to avoid inhaling the insecticide, getting it in either your eyes or those of the birds and contaminating water or feed. In case of heavy mite infestations, buildings, nests and roosting areas should be cleaned, disinfected with an approved disinfectant and then sprayed or dusted with a product of your choice. Under the guidance of a vet, invermectin can also be used to control most external parasites.

Prevention: To keep external parasites in check, provide sanitary living conditions, supply bathing waters (obviously this is for ducks) when possible, and treat birds before lice or mites are numerous enough to be harmful. Turkey and chicken hens used as foster mothers should always be treated for lice and mites before their maternal chores begin. "

I noticed that the mite problem i had back in about November seems to have disappeared. I really think that the dust baths for the chickens helped a lot. And also the fact that my ducks and chickens can free range through the day and the ducks have a bath that they use daily. Perhaps also the wet conditions are helping too in the actual pen. And i change the straw in the nests often, though now, on the floor, i am trying the deep litter method and just putting sawdust on top of dirty old floor material rather than clearing it out. When i run out of sawdust, i suppose i will go to buying straw. But if i get a mite problem, i will clear out the whole lot. With the deep litter method, you only clear out the floor material once a year.

[Pixie Feral]

There is such a thing as food grade DE per say as the other DE is used to clean pool filters and I don't think any of us wont that near our Chookers. There is a company that is called Grow Natural who have it in 5kg and 20kg bags. It also comes in two grades.
They are:
Fine Grade’ is best used for pest control, fleas, bed bugs, cockroaches and dusting of pets coats and fur.
‘Livestock Grade’ is available, a much coarser grade for ‘livestock and pet feed’, home gardening and plants. ( this grade is still effective on fleas and bugs for grass and garden areas, but a bit harsh to rub onto your pet)
‘fine grade’ for the best pet, flea and bug control externally, internally, the ‘livestock grade’ will do for controlling worms and parasites for your pets and livestock.
DE is natural silica, organic and non toxic, a natural product that has many benefits and applications for animals and the environment.
The lime will work for the lice though. http://www.grownatural.com.au
I hope this helps and look forward to picking some very clever peoples brains in the future.:)

[Imarni]

I will use Ivomectin probably not permaculture PC but I can't see any other way to eradicate lice from chickens everything else seems very half assed. I do also use vaseline and lavender to quelch scale and garlic for worming. But lice I want out and fast it effects egg production.