Christmas makes me feel like selling paradise....a whinge.

[kimbo.parker]

Christmas makes me feel like selling paradise...because christmas time is when my kids run out of excuses not to visit;
so they do and it is always the same...all touch and no contact.

They are young adults, profesionals and tradesmen....they are "successful" (retch)....and they just don't get it.
They never get it.

When they visit me, they visit 135 ac of permaculture, slow food, transition movement, alternative lifestyle with cutting edge landcare, edible landscape, custom planted forests, oak groves and sacred sites.........throw in; own power, water and food supplies; dams, ponds and animals...cattle, sheep, poultry..........(it is a passion which has been going on for a while).

and they 'see' it all in 5 mins.,,,not a question,,,barely a comment,,,,and what comments there are, are just stupid.

They see nothing!!!!.......we are a fractured family........
with the 'fracture' clearly visible at the point where the consumptive little bastards, fully connected to the money system, just will not role over to green sensibilities.

Which brings me to the point of selling paradise and spending the quid,,,$400k would maybe be enough to set up in Paraguay, si or Eucador......
nah, too far away; I want to see the ocean claim my kids houses.

merry christmas
regards,
kimbo

[gardenlen]

ah well kimbo,

at least they visit hey? or is because of all that good fresh slow food on the table chuckle? we had the same when we lived on acreage, why are you livng out here it is too far away, no they didn't want to know about growing all our own food enough for them and room for them to live, and fresh air, or the eco' tourism low key potential, nut just how far is macca's!! away?

yep our kids are in the fast lane, they don't see the success of mum and dads lifestyle changes.

season greetings

len

[Burra Maluca]

Don't let it get you down Kimbo. My own son still lives with us and he's great (IMHO), but I also inherited three adult stepchildren. One never visits at all, one is a pain in the butt and criticises everything, and one really wants to do the same as us but can't get himself together to actually do anything about it. You just have to be there for them for when they're ready. And if they never are, well, I managed to inherit nine grandchildren too, so maybe one of those.

Have a wonderful Christmas everyone!

[frosty]

excuse me for sounding smug but luckily we never had any children !!!

we do have several kids and even a grandkid ........all 4 legged and all appreciate our efforts at growing fodder and have no desire to ever leave home

Merry Xmas

[kerrip]

Ahhh Kimbo

I feel it too. I am sick up and fed of my kids lately. We have 7 between us all with partners and 10 grandkids and a couple more coming soon. What is it with them? Is it just a sign of the times? We are sitting here without any of them today (although I have spoken to one on the phone and visited one that lives close by for an hour or so this morning) and it is all so sad.

I remember looking forward to christmas and just loved hanging out with everyone. It is gone I think.

I feel like if you aren't a millionaire ($$$ wise) and able to give them very expensive gifts then we are just not worth while to them. Maybe a little harsh, but I'm feeling sad today and can't wait for it all to just finish and I want to start the new year.

You have done an amazing thing with your place and my hat is definately off to you. Congratulations.

I wish you joy and love.

Kerri

[kimbo.parker]

Ahhh Kimbo

I feel it too. I am sick up and fed of my kids lately. We have 7 between us all with partners and 10 grandkids and a couple more coming soon. What is it with them? Is it just a sign of the times? We are sitting here without any of them today (although I have spoken to one on the phone and visited one that lives close by for an hour or so this morning) and it is all so sad.

I remember looking forward to christmas and just loved hanging out with everyone. It is gone I think.

I feel like if you aren't a millionaire ($$$ wise) and able to give them very expensive gifts then we are just not worth while to them. Maybe a little harsh, but I'm feeling sad today and can't wait for it all to just finish and I want to start the new year.

You have done an amazing thing with your place and my hat is definately off to you. Congratulations.

I wish you joy and love.

Kerri

hello,
you definitely have my vibe pegged,,,,,,,.....i'm sorry your feeling down,,,but cheer up cause we are here, and you gotta:).....i've got to go milk the bloody cow coz the wife and 6 yo couldn't organize a puddle in a storm...time me;)
....................................all good, the job was done by the time i got there....
maybe there is a god....i jest....(which means i'm feeling a bit better myself).

i appreciate your congrats. on my place....i dig it even more coming from a peer.

being a recluse, i am disadvantaged by my reliance on family ( namely 4 adult sons, raised by one single parent, me, since the youngest was 5 months old.) ....

have you ever experienced being surrounded by sheer spectacle; be it beauty, or grandeur , or magnificence... and the entire thing is 'reduced' by the fact that yours are the only eyes seeing it?
....and to have some other eyes to share it with would magnify it all, even to you.

i'm not talking a city of eyes to strip the heart and magic from it; but to share it with the eyes that are important to you.
and maybe from that sharing of the spectacle with other eyes, sharing of the vibe with other hearts.......

'wake up and smell the desert kim........you sound like a frgn christmas card'

....sorry christmas spirit messin with my head.....time for a chrissy cone.

cheers, happy new year (oops)....i really feel a sense of impending doom for 2010.....as a number, it sucks....a 3 is not a 9, or an 11 which is a 2 anyway.......still greatfull it is not yet a 5 (2012)....and the good news about 2010 is that after it comes 2011...a 4....er, hey that is not good either.....maybe the frgn world will end 2012???!....
so i only have to do 2 ,more of these christmass's anyway;)

regards,
kimbo

[pebble]

so i only have to do 2 ,more of these christmass's anyway

That's cheered me up now, thanks :-)


There are lots of people who want the connection with the land but don't have the funds or other resources. And there's the people with the land who don't have enough people. It's the one big challenge that remains largely un-addressed in the communities of those who see what is coming, and it transcends immediate family. Maybe it doesn't matter, because when the shit hits the fan we will have to get together anyway if we want to survive. Would be nice if got some practice in though.

[milifestyle]

Sometimes the blindest people have perfect vision... (and Diplomas).

Your property sounds like heaven, kimbo...

[kimbo.parker]

Sometimes the blindest people have perfect vision... (and Diplomas).

Your property sounds like heaven, kimbo...

er eric, sorry man...i wasn't ribbing the blind (unsited people)
but hopefully was channelling my angst towards my kids who can see, and don't.
er eric
does this mean that you are 'un-sited', how do you read posts, and moderate ?...never mind, you do and that is the main thing.

ps i've been watching your work in a now locked post,,,,mate, all these deep breaths have got to be healthy. 'chortle'
cheers,
Kimbo

[milifestyle]

er eric, sorry man...i wasn't ribbing the blind (unsited people)
but hopefully was channelling my angst towards my kids who can see, and don't.
er eric
does this mean that you are 'un-sited', how do you read posts, and moderate ?...never mind, you do and that is the main thing.

ps i've been watching your work in a now locked post,,,,mate, all these deep breaths have got to be healthy. 'chortle'
cheers,
Kimbo

lol... I was referring to your kids not really SEEING or being interested in your property...

Anyway... hope your christmas was full and entertaining

[Grahame]

Last year we gave our extended family (Brothers and Sisters and kids) a gift of giving a goat to a community through Oxfam. They were underwhelmed to say the least. This year, they got nothing, I'd rather give it straight to the people who need goats...

[purplepear]

Seems we all have some tale of disapointment in our kids and their connection to our life style, me too.
It has to be enough for me that I am content and hope that the kids are content in their lives or atleast working towards it
Good luck to all and thanks for being there.

[pebble]

Last year we gave our extended family (Brothers and Sisters and kids) a gift of giving a goat to a community through Oxfam. They were underwhelmed to say the least. This year, they got nothing, I'd rather give it straight to the people who need goats...

I have mixed feelings about these kinds of gifts. I have a couple of siblings that do this for me, mostly I think because we live in different countries and it's easier for them (although not easier than when they sent me amazon vouchers by email). I don't reply to them. It's because I'm part of the underclass and in the country I live in I am considered poor whereas my siblings are not (they are pretty wealthy). I find it quite painful to be given such a 'gift' when I know that there are many times in the year when myself and my friends have a really hard time and Christmas in particular is usually stressful. I would prefer it if they just made a donation to Oxfam etc without involving me in the process. I think the schemes themselves are very good generally, but it's not appropriate to give gifts like this to all people.

My not replying must have worked because this year I didn't get anything, which is better for me than what was happening before.

This is an interesting thread though. I really tried to stay out of the whole Christmas thing this year, but there is such an expectation that everyone will be having a good time. Someone on the radio yesterday wished everyone a happy Christmas with their family, which made me wonder if he thought people without family didn't deserve his good will.

My family don't really understand what I am doing with my life either, so I generally stay away from them at Christmas etc, and try and connect with the ones I can at other times of the year when it works better.

[eco4560]

have you ever experienced being surrounded by sheer spectacle; be it beauty, or grandeur , or magnificence... and the entire thing is 'reduced' by the fact that yours are the only eyes seeing it?
....and to have some other eyes to share it with would magnify it all, even to you.

Were you peeking over my back fence last night?

11:30 I was standing naked on the back deck - with clouds forming a halo around the half moon in the west, Orion's belt directly overhead in the clear patch of sky, the wet of the recently rained upon deck under my feet, the sounds of the breeze shifting the leaves of the trees and releasing their drops onto the ground. The aroma of drying tomatoes coming from the still hot oven that I just turned off. I was wondering if I was ever going to find someone to share it with - who would actually want to stand naked on the back deck in the quiet and enjoy the moment with me.

Maybe you should adopt me Kimbo. I promise only to get naked on the full moon if there are guests in the house though. It is nice to be able to converse with others distant via the internet who appreciate the same stuff that gets me excited (like a bag of horse poo!).

Pebble your comments about family ring true for me too. My kids are at their fathers for Christmas - we alternate years. When they aren't with me I have absolutely no desire to go and watch other people play "happy families" for Christmas. I turned down several invites to join others for the day, and I don't think they understand that a small salad plucked fresh from my garden 5 mins prior to eating, with a few prawns and a cheap NZ Sav blanc, eaten on the deck with the chooks for company can be pure bliss.

[eco4560]

Sigh.... I shouldn't have done it to myself... I went and visited a old Uni friend on Sunday. She and the hubbie and 2.3 kids live on one of those gated canal frontage places just north of the Gold Coast. There's a VW Beetle and a BMW in the drive, and the tinny that was moored at the front last time I was there has been replaced with a HUGE motor boat. The swank cruisy kind. There's a huge plasma screen in what used to be the lounge, but has now been turned into the billiard room. That's in addition to the entertainment room with the projector that drops from the ceiling, which used to run a Playstation, but now has a new Wii. The kids and the parents also have a TV in each bedroom.
It just served to remind me how vastly different the paths that we have chosen to walk since we graduated....
To top it all off I was offered breakfast on Monday before I left. I heard bacon and eggs and was quite excited by the thought. Until my brain caught up with me and registered that she had said "McMuffin" in there as well.... Eeergh.
I came home and gardened for about 6 hours to cleanse my soul. My baby brother arrived - I haven't seen him for a year and he has never seen my place. Gladdened my heart that he was excited by the solar panels and wants to install some and a rain water tank on his inner city Sydney terrace house. He shops at the local farmers market. He's a permie but just doesn't know it yet!

[JohnB]

After 2.5 years living on the road in a small van, I've just bought a house, but I'm still living in my van until I can make a small part of the house into something I feel comfortable with. Other people will pay me to live in the rest of the house! I visited some friends who live in a yurt today, and it was so warm and cosy I could live in one. The great thing is that they will be moving it to my land soon. People who live conventional lives don't know what they're missing out on. I suppose we should feel sorry for them, but it's just such a shame that they don't know, or don't care, what damage they're doing.

[kimbo.parker]

. People who live conventional lives don't know what they're missing out on. I suppose we should feel sorry for them, but it's just such a shame that they don't know, or don't care, what damage they're doing.

hello,
g'day john,

i can't bring myself to feel sorry for the conventionalists. not while they are so happy, not while they have all the fruit,,,like eco456's friends and their boat. Air con on, eating really tasty food, living the consumptive hi life whilst i have 'dick' and live like a peasant.....i have one tap john, one.

and this is my choice because; i can not get past the morals and ethics. i am; either a very advanced soul or a total shithead.
the shreds of ego that remain beg to 'hold firm and stand fast',

but i have been doing this for 7 years; and the world has not changed for the better,,,lest that 'better' be the reduced damage to the planet, pitifully insignificant, from my personal denial.

i toy with the full roll-over.
i sell paradise, buy a bit of NZ Southlands, shit loads of toys and never get out of the hot shower. Flash car, boat and have money left for clothes as well as investments. I'll also have insurance. lots of insurance.

right now, i sit in a tin shed, sweating my arse off, surrounded by silence and majesty, with one tap. It is not fun. It is personal sacrifice ( i bring wife and child with me ).
i have no income, i have no cash, i have no debt.....i have land....and an ample supply of leaves to wipe my arse with.

i have no apology for the conventionalists,,,i have contempt,,,,i blame them for me having to tackle the morals and ethics on my own (nod to present company online).
and,
when i roll over, winter/spring 2010..............will you feel sorry for me? ;)

i will still admire you guys....from a distance.
i'll talk you up, admire your ethics...and then 'go fishing in my boat,,,a big bastard,,,vroom vroom!

ah, i hear 'the good life calling'.

regards,
kimbo

[Grahame]

Good points Kimbo,

I too understand the theories of compassion and 'being the change you wish to see in the world'. But it would be nice to think the world would actually change too! And who (present company excluded) is going to have compassion for me!

I wish the change I wished to see in the world, was more greed and more personal wealth, not this hippy, moralistic change I am stuck with now.

[milifestyle]

Can't be all bad Kimbo, at least you have access to an internet connection :o)

[ppp]

a little reassumrance that there are also "youngens" with more aligned ideals out there.. i'm not young, but still under 30...
my parents aren't too crazy, don't even know what permaculture is but.. some things and meals which I did with my parents when I was home this christmas
- joined in to kill our own turkey for christmas, using the heart, liver and giblet in the stuffing, pretty sure the spuds and pumpkin were
- had home grown beetroot soup with local wheat dumplings for christmas lunch
- had friends from sydney pass though, and mum served / cooked up her own bottled + treated olives for starters, her own fish row (eggs) made into cakes for more starters, her own small potatoes with some smoked samon for even more starters, her own caught yabbies with all home grown vegies in a stir fry for main meal, her own plum and desert qandong puree for desert, then we had native lime and mint steeped in vodca playing a board game well into the night

I returned home with 2 bags of wheat (for our chooks), an old trailer axle, some vegie seedlings and 5 native bee hives which we'd made out of local cypress pine which dad had sawn up on a borrowed portable saw mill, oh and some quandong seeds to see if they'll grow up here

[kimbo.parker]

Can't be all bad Kimbo, at least you have access to an internet connection :o)

true eric,
but;
the internet is a gift from a son in a suit, smart enough to provide me with a channel for my angst, lest that channel be him.
and
i am confronted by the fact that ' i have one tap and wireless broadband '....this looks odd even to me.
furthermore
tech begets tech and it is a spiral into dependency.
now i have to have a mobile phone to get tech support ( from my son if i make an appointment, after all 'time is money ).

(for those that don't know)
in the spirit of research....i took my families consumption / enviro footprint down to bare survival....pure satisfaction of needs (if possible) with a piecemeal approach to satisfying wants above needs,,,and a heavy and critical eye on consumption....the idea was to evolve an understanding of what this life might look and feel like.

' at one stage i imagined coming down from the mountain, transformed, flowing robes, radiant aura, disseminating the New Ways for the New Age '..................ha!

let me tell you straight: (as i believe it)
the planet needs 'zero if not negative growth' from humans;
so on the ground, a whole lot of humans will need to do this at the micro level.

this is what i did, zero growth. Seven years of zero growth....( oh i grew, i got older, trees grew ),,,but as a family we fell behind....(our asset grew in value) so we probably didn't fall behind in wealth....i guess this line of enquiry will run to a value judgement about the qualitative differences in milking a cow or taking a cruise...
having milked the cow, i'm at the point of taking the cruise.

Zero growth as a macro perspective, rests on the shoulders of a population willing to do the micro.
That this journey is so bloody tough, that it would cause a 'convert to revert' is something the gods had better look at.

and the fact that the consumption of the internet is not congruent with zero growth, is something else they might look into.
cheers eric,

regards,
kimbo

[pebble]

Ppp, sounds like a great time, you are fortunate.

Kimbo, how come you are swinging between such extremes? I agree about the zero or negative growth, and if this has been an experiment for you then I'm sure you have gained useful things. Still, it needs to be sustainable and if after 7 years you are wanting to sell up and sell out, how sustainable is it really?

There is a transition, not just for individuals but for the culture. We can't all go from high consumption to zero or less in 60 seconds. Peoples that have lived a low consumption life traditionally didn't do it on their own, and until we recreate communites that sustain us I think we are reliant on doing our best with what we've got. I see the internet as a powerdown tool. If I got rid of it it would be harder to powerdown.

Maybe you just went too far too fast.

[milifestyle]

Kimbo, If you was given a bucket in exchange for either your tap or your internet connection... which would you exchange for the bucket ?

[JohnB]

Despite owning a house, I'm still living in my van for now, but I can't fill my water tank because it will freeze (it's winter in Britain, with snow and ice!). I had to borrow a water container with no tap for a while, and it's a real pain pouring water out of the filler, and I waste a lot. I've now got my water container with a tap back, and it's great. It makes life so much easier and I use less water.

I want a tap and internet connection, and a bucket is no replacement for either. Although a bucket with a tap would be fine!

[kimbo.parker]

you are messing with my head (again) eric........i'd swap the internet for the bucket.
pebbles,,,,the calm voice of reason : you are accurate.......no support and too fast too quick....but, i put it to you...

when the boat is sinking, what is the sustainable speed to bail it out?...................i bailed as fast as i could ( moral imperitive )

,,,,that after a long battle,,,the boat is still sinking, and faster;
leaves me to conclude that bailing as fast as i could was no more sustainable than not bailing....

work your magic on that pebs;)

john, poor bugger....sans tap, tank frozen etc.....i like you man.

regards,
kimbo

[milifestyle]

Then what ever you do, stay away from buckets, Kimbo. We'd miss u around here...

[pebble]

Kimbo, I'm not sure exactly what the problem is, sorry. You have land, family and are living the permie life. But you are unhappy? It's too hard? You don't have enough resources to make it work in a way that's satisfying and gives you pleasure?

Or is this a philosophical problem - you've done what you can but the human world is still a mess (and getting worse)?


Is the boat that is sinking your life or the world you live in (or both)?

There's always a solution, especially if you have a good problem :-)

[kimbo.parker]

Kimbo, I'm not sure exactly what the problem is, sorry. You have land, family and are living the permie life. But you are unhappy? It's too hard? You don't have enough resources to make it work in a way that's satisfying and gives you pleasure?

Or is this a philosophical problem - you've done what you can but the human world is still a mess (and getting worse)?


Is the boat that is sinking your life or the world you live in (or both)?

There's always a solution, especially if you have a good problem

dear doctor

brilliant of you pebs....and the answer is....a big yes to Qu1. 'not happy hippy....too hard...way to hard....'

and another big yes to Qu2...the philosophical, underpins my whole.....daily....existance,,,

whereas the 'philosophical' is not something that i have in my head when i get up, or even after coffee & cone,,,i do days and weeks without the philosophical,,,and getting really pisssed off along the way.

the landscape reeks of ' philosophical motivations '; and i'm not sched for those again until my stars come around in April (about easter time).
it is a seasonal, 'mental' immobilisation.....

this should not discount its importance though; as long as 6 months every year,,,i am running on the rabid ferver of the previous 6 months when philosophy controlled the unit....

i tend to take the shit of my own design, during the non philosophical periods.......

but

it is during these periods; i have previously 'hung on',,,doing the hard yards,,, with 'mere internal mutterings' about pioneering the new ways, being a symbiont to nature, individuality.

i get a tad unstable with my posts :),,,actually the truth is ...it is the only time i post....(oops)
i diminish from public when i feel good ( because i feel good, i don't need em ),,,i re-emerge........needy.....and unstable.

unstable might be good....the 'fire' changing.
but as i've indicated,,,the fire spirit is contemplating a right angle turn.....towards normality?

towards consumption as a god dam lifestyle choice.....NZ pebs (next door to you ;))
i'm thinking Southlands,
i'm thinking cooch and wal.......i'm thinking of being really individual....and migrating to NZ!.....i mean 'whodoesthat?nooneright?'....and as most kiwis live in australia
there should be some space in NZ....where i can be more comfy,,,,like cooch,,,like wal.

ps the metaphorical boat that i bail is both self and world....and that may be a problem...
if i divest myself of world concerns totally ( and that would take some heavy duty auto programming,,,that is all ) then i could concentrate on 'bailing'
with my lifestyle.....

pushing the same metaphor,,,

if it is sinking, if it is terminal....it is not sustainable to bail.........one jumps, one sinks or swims...
that is how i got where i am today,,,and all though it sucks...

it is the proudest thing i've ever done.

i bail also,,,,because i age
and i reason that the 'experiential' value of 'a' life it the bottom line. ..distinct from what could have been....what was.

at an experiential level; i have done the 'save planet',,,,,,( dear me wasn't that an experience...like a Himalayan trek),,,,just beautiful,,,if you don't focus on the diarrhoea.

this treker IS thinking of the merde,,,and glad to have done it once is ready for the experiential value of uber consumerism, when i sell paradise to a permie who has done 'consumerism' and has the quid to propel me....

i detect an irony there :)
regards,
kimbo
regards,
kimbo