Fodder Trees

[Tegs]

We are trying to build our 6 acres into an almost sustainable property. As we are meat eaters the plan includes livestock for meat. Does anyone have any suggestions for fodder trees that could also double as wind break/ shelter. Our property is on the central Queensland coast so the climate is sup-tropical. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[milifestyle]

Chamaecytisus proliferus...

I've heard it does well in Queensland tropics

[purplepear]

Although not a tree Bana grass is a wind break and fodder.

http://www.tropicalforages.info/key/Forages/Media/Html/Pennisetum_purpureum.htm

[Dalzieldrin]

tagaste not a contender?

[milifestyle]

tagaste not a contender?

Chamecytisus proliferous

[purplepear]

tagaste not a contender?

Chamecytisus proliferous

I think milifestyle was showing off a bit! :mrgreen:

[Dalzieldrin]

tagaste not a contender?

Chamecytisus proliferous

I think milifestyle was showing off a bit! :mrgreen:

*headslap*...perhaps, but a good 'own' all the same :-D

[Tegs]

Thanks for the suggestions, I want to give everything and anything a go to see what will work. I am hoping that the fodder trees can fill the gap during the dry season when the pasture becomes a bit thin on the ground. We have a long road ahead of us with soil improvement before our "grass" will sustain anything for more than a few months.
Thanks again!

[milifestyle]

tagaste not a contender?

Chamecytisus proliferous

I think milifestyle was showing off a bit! :mrgreen:

No. Only stating that it was already mentioned as a possible contender.

[Tegs]

Has anyone ever heard of lemongarss being used as stock feed?

[janahn]

two crucial questions 1) soil type 2) rainfall and, lets add 3) temperature range.

good chance it is best to forget tagasatse.

www.janahn.com.au (http://www.janahn.com.au)

[kerrip]

Have you thought about the Tree Lucerne?

[Tegs]

Ok, the soil is heavy grey clay that becomes quite waterlogged in some areas during the summer months. Parts are sandy but mostly it's clay. Rainfall is about 1100mm per year with the bulk of it falling during the summer months and with winter being prodominently dry. And temp range is usually no cooler than 17degreesC during our winter days and rarely above 40degreesC during summer.

I have planted a carob tree along a new swale and it seems to be thriving even without much TLC over the past dryer than normal months. I think I will try and get my hands on some more.

I was thinking clumping bamboo could be a good multi purpose plant that would also be good for some erosion control.

Why no tagasate?

[permasculptor]

Here is some.
http://www.redplanetplants.com/permacultureplants.html

[kimbo.parker]

go the tagasaste,,,the el primo stock food.....but also the prime bee tree,,,,good for wood....lovely perfume....native birds use it........it is a legume........
it is soft when so many fodder trees are hard (acacia spp.)
carob is a stock food at year 50? and comes into it's best at maybe year 100?........and that is 'if' the sucker does not have a taproot issue,,,how many carobs do you meet with a tap root issue - most.

There is a trap for the unaware here; if you research 'fodder trees' you miss all the human food trees that are ALSO dam fine fodder trees............screech of brakes>>>>>>>
sod fodder trees,
grow mulberries..........stock love em.........ALL Stock........sheep, cattle, chooks, yabbies.

definitely mulberries in amongst a tags nursery crop..........layers and levels.
you eat meat,,,do you kill it?
i do,,,i don't like it,,,,,,,,it really effects my meat eating. I love my cattle,,,i hate my chooks and find killing them hard,,,,the good thing is i don't have to gut em.
i tell the wife and daughter......i killed it, you cut it.
dam 6 yo has her own knife!.......frigin carnivores!.......
regards,
Kimbo

[Bird]

if you have space Rain tree may be the go
heres a link with info to see
www.agroforestry.net/tti/Samanea-raintree.pdf

people/animal food
nitrogen fixer
shade tree - a bloody big one
supplier of nitrogen rich mulch
easy to grow from seed and quickish growing

[kimbo.parker]

Ok,

I have planted a carob tree along a new swale and it seems to be thriving even without much TLC over the past dryer than normal months. I think I will try and get my hands on some more.


i rekon plant seeds, not seedlings, a tiny carob has a big taproot,,it that sucker starts chucking laps arround the base of the pot, that carob has a small future.
regards,
Kimbo

[Tegs]

Mulberries of course, Isn't it always the things that are right in front of you that are hardest to see! Easy to propagate and grow as well as tasty! I had a magnificent mulberry tree until our cows pushed it over to get the last of the leaves at the very top of the tree. They loved it! I might have to plant them in a safer position where they can be nibbled but not decimated!
To answer your question yes we keep our stock for meat. We have a local butcher come out and do the deed for us. I don't think we have the skill level or the equipment to do the animal justice by butchering it ourselves, maybe in the future.
This might be slightly off topic but does anyone have any thoughts on feeding palm seeds to pigs? Could this be bad for them? We had too pigs that stopped eating the grower pellets when we put them out into a paddock full of native palms. The palm seeds were the only thing that I could think of that they could be eating in sufficient numbers to satisfy their appetites.

[permup]

I think milifestyle was showing off a bit! :mrgreen:

Not showing off THAT much. Its TAGASASTE, not "tagaste".

[purplepear]

I guess I made an AS of myself then

[ecodharmamark]

We are trying to build our 6 acres into an almost sustainable property. As we are meat eaters the plan includes livestock for meat. Does anyone have any suggestions for fodder trees that could also double as wind break/ shelter. Our property is on the central Queensland coast so the climate is sup-tropical. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

G'day Tegs

Welcome to the PRI Forum.

You may also wish to consider as part of your species selection process the ability of the plant to coppice well. Leguminous (Family: Fabaceae) tree species, such as certain Acacias (endemic to your local area?) and Chamaecytisus palmensis (http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/147272/tagasaste.pdf) (Tagasaste syn. Tree Lucerne) do fit this bill. However in the case of the latter, your micro environment would need to match that of the La Palma (the home of Tag, and which is more Mediterranean than sub-tropical) in order for it to perform at an optimum. Tag will form a dense thicket, and is therefore ideally suited as a first row species in an effective windbreak (http://www.agroforestry.net/overstory/overstory32.html) (with taller plant species behind).

Cheerio, Marko.

[Paddy82]

I read David Holmgren suggests Willow trees for fodder.

[Tegs]

I read David Holmgren suggests Willow trees for fodder.

I love the look of willow trees around a dam, do they grow in a sub tropical climate?

[Yukkuri_Kame]

I love the look of willow trees around a dam, do they grow in a sub tropical climate?

Here in subtropical florida, the most common wild species is the weeping willow. It loves water and grows in swampy creekbeds and such, often in water a couple feet deep. It doesn't form a single tall trunk, rather tends to form thickets of arching limbs.

I think the typical weeping willow is a hybrid, and most willows are cross-fertile. Regardless, the weeping willow is grown in subtropics.

Willow definitely can serve multiple purposes. The craft applications of willow are obvious. The inner bark contains an analgesic (aspirin). Also, I have heard that the tips of the willow branch can be used to make a rooting "tea", as they contain rooting hormone. Definitely something worth cultivating to use in the nursery!

Come to think of it, I spotted a thicket of willow just yesterday - maybe I'll do some trial & error rooting experiments.

[Michaelangelica]

We are trying to build our 6 acres into an almost sustainable property. As we are meat eaters the plan includes livestock for meat. Does anyone have any suggestions for fodder trees that could also double as wind break/ shelter. Our property is on the central Queensland coast so the climate is sup-tropical. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Excellent question!
Permaculturalists should have a list of all; for each climate/rainfall area, on the Damp Planet.

My contribution:-
The Carob for dry-to- Mediterranean Climates.

[Speedy]

Try Tagasaste in that climate if you really wantto, but trial first and dont depend on it.
Summer rainfall and humidity in a wet spell could be too much for it.

I think someone sugested windbreak and then fodder trees as a seperate planting behind it.
If Wind is a problem , then that's how I'd tackle it.

Here are a few other sugestions
Leucaena spp.- only as part of ration and only for ruminants inoculated with bacteria to breakdown mimosine.

Cajanus cajan- better choice than tagasaste I reckon

Albizia lebbek- not a bad shade tree as well
Albizia saman

Erythrina variegata - used in Bali for living fences and regularly pollarded and given as stockfeed.

Gliricidia sepium is also used in the living fences, but is toxic.
maybe Gliricidia is ok as small amounts you'll have to check, but it is very much used there so is obviously valued.
In some countries a wash is made with the leaves to wash livestock to prevent ( or rid of?) external parasites.

Sesbania grandiflora- Flowers good in omlettes
S. bispinosa
S.sesban

Moringa oleifera- Lvs, fls, pods are also excellent human food


Acacia spp.- look for some local species with habit that suits your needs.
Some have lots of edible seed -good for chooks - there are a few aust. trop. species being grown in the Sahel , Niger for seed for improving human diet.
A.colei and A.torulosa from memory and I think there's another one, but cant remember.

Cassia siamea- lvs used as Trad. food in cuisine of Nth Thailand- coppices and pollards well.-worth a try as fodder.

Jakfruit-

Vetiver would be a better choice than Lemongrass I'd think, as a 'cut and cart' forage.
also with that would be Sweet potato.
Cassave leaves- let them wilt first before you use them.
Achira ( Qld arrowroot)

There are heaps more, but that should be a good start.

Palm fruits for pigs....
apart from eating the hearts myself, I've always thought
that would be the best use for 'Cocos palms' (Syagrus romanzoffiana).
Wild pigs cause a lot of damage to native palms in Nth Aust. by devouring fruits (and eating hearts)

[Michaelangelica]

A couple of PDF files on the subject.
www.mtg.unimelb.edu.au/publications/des_ch5.pdf
www.agromisa.org/agrobriefs/agrobrief1.pdf
www.hortresearch.co.nz/files/projects/.../archive/wairarapa.pdf
and anicely written article

The ideal fodder tree

Criteria should apply to those trees that will replace pastures, so a comparison of their worth can be evaluated (Felker & Bandurski 1979). Trees and shrubs with potential should:

* show good growth characteristics: many fodder trees fit well within this criteria;

* cause minimal soil disturbance: fodder trees need no soil disturbance after establishment;

* prevent nutrient loss from the soils: because of their permanence, fodder trees help to prevent nutrient losses;

* have little or no need for irrigation: fodder trees can tap deep water tables out of the reach of short-rooted pastures. Some species in dry or marginal areas may need a little irrigation only until they are established;

* provide yields of edible components comparable to pastures: most trees and shrubs suitable for fodder have yields reported to be several times higher than pastures grown in comparable areas;

* have the ability to fix nitrogen to reduce the dependence on artificial fertilisers: most legumes, such as tagasaste, and some other species such as casuarinas, fix atmospheric nitrogen by use of bacteria and convert it into nitrates that the plants can use, removing all dependence on nitrogenous fertilisers;

* have a high protein content in their edible portions: as many of the trees and shrubs suitable for fodder are legumes, the protein content will be high - often around 20 to 25 percent, comparable to lucerne;

* provide their feed in a short time: the possible yields from fodder trees and shrubs could be three, or five or more times the yield per year than from pastures. Production from some, such as leucaena can be less than a year, that of tagasaste, two or three years, and others around the same time. Some trees, such as the carob, require possibly seven or eight years before the pods and seeds are freely available. But then, some pasture improvement programs can take up to fifteen years to achieve! And;

* be fuel efficient, that is, they should require little input in the way of fossil fuels: as the trees, once established, are permanent features on the farm, there will be no need for annual ploughings of the soil, and no further requirements for machinery.

Some of the species that fulfill these minimum requirements include:

Tagasaste: Chamaecytisus proliferus

Carob: Ceratonia siliqua

Honey Locust: Gleditsia triacanthos

Willows: Salix spp, especially the weeping willow, Salix babylonica, and the hybrid Salix matsudana x alba

Poplars: Populus spp

Leucaena: Leucaena leucocephala

Chenopods: particularly Atriplex nummularia.

And of course, there are numerous native species that are edible, such as some of the acacias (Sheppard 1985), the brachychitons, cassias, the casuarinas and other chenopods.
Minimum tillage livestock agriculture holds promise in Australia as well as the rest of the world as the future way livestock farming must go. Such measures are essential to prolong the life of livestock production, and of the soils themselves. Edible species of trees and shrubs will make the difference between survival and disaster, for the farm, the farmer, the farming community and the economy of the country.
http://www.grahamandrews.com/fodder_trees.htm