A bit about me, invites for you

[earthspirit]

Greetings,
there's a few things I'd like to share with you, permaculture being about sharing and all...

First, an introduction. I'm Susan. I've been into Permaculture for about 14 years in a variety of capacities. I feel it is an important part of my daily life and intrinsic to my thinking & approach to solutions.

Presently I'm a sole parent (again) with a toddler & teens so these are the primary focus of my activities. I also have a couple of acres of land which I'm slowly establishing as an excellent demonstration site of Permaculture living. Of course it is a very slow process as I am but one person with limited resources, time & energy and many, many dreams. I would dearly love to share all this with others, (especially someone special :wink: ), and could always find a bed & feed for anyone willing to give me a helping hand. PM me for details if you are interested in coming to my home. I live in the mid north of South Australia.

Next, a bit of an ad. Have you heard of Permaworld? It is a Permaculture based international enterprise which have excellent Internet solutions. There are free membership options and a great web hosting package, tools, resources & software. You can also earn an income, potentially even as a free member. If you want to take a look at it, visit here:
http://permaworld.org/members/spirited/

Yes, that is my affiliate URL and I would gain any benefits from your membership but is there anything wrong with trying to earn a living independently? Besides, Permaworld is absolutely based upon Permaculture ethics and is providing a valuable service to Internet users worldwide. They also support environmental & humanitarian projects.

While I'm plugging my business interests I'd also like to draw your attention to my other Internet enterprise. It also has a Permaculture like ethical foundation with the world's first extensive range of certified organic to food standards skin, hair, body, oral, nutrition & cosmetics products. If organic alternatives to everyday items like toothpaste, shampoo, moisturisers etc interest you, please have a look at what is available via: http://earthspirit.mionegroup.com or my personal website as included with my signature.

That's all for now. I look forward to talking with some of you in the future.

Be grateful for the many blessings in Life.

Earthspirit.

[murray]

hi susan

welcome to our forum and thanks for that great introduction. :-)

i have no problem with you providing info on permaworld plus affiliate link etc... but you should know that it has been discussed here before and the consensus was that they are a pyramid org. you can read our previous conversation here: http://forums.permaculture.org.au/viewtopic.php?t=739

so - i just wanted to say welcome and to the rest of you -- it would be great if we could somehow avoid another permaworld flamewar. don't know how likely that is, but give it a good try anyhow eh? 8)

[earthspirit]

Hi Murray & all who read on,

Thanks for the welcome.

I took a look at the forum post you mentioned. Sure did get some people stirred up!

It seems to me that some people feel that it is wrong to make &/or want to make money. These people are undoubtedly broke & always struggling. Money is merely a concept, these days not even consolidated by gold or other materials. As such, there is no limit to money. It is not a 'bad' thing. "Tis neither good nor bad but how you see it so" Hamlet, by William Shakespeare. What really matters is what is done....I was going to say with it but just 'done' is enough.

I joined Permaworld because it fits well with me ethically and its products are those which I am already using from other companies who; charge more, offer less, have no rewards, and don't necessarily give anything to anyone. It's a logical solution of 'lesser evils' to me. I didn't join it to make mountains of money by scamming people, as is implied of the sole purpose of all MLM type companies (even those with real world products).

Yes, I would like to earn an abundant living from my combined enterprising--I do a number of things online & off to suppliment the gov. payment I receive. I would definitely like my income to be from my independent efforts and no longer be part of the welfare system. I would like to have true financial freedom and all the comforts that affords. I would like to be able to fund & support many projects to benefit the Earth & people. But I'm not waiting for it to magically appear. Does that make me a greedy capitalist pig?

Just a thought.... it's capitalist who have brought about many great achievements of mankind with both positive & negative ramifications.

I am working towards achieving my goals using some universal principles of wealth creation: saving a portion of all I earn, acquiring income producing assets such as real estate (which I can increase the value of such as by planting trees), by reducing costs and controlling spending (saving energy/resources & exchanging goods/services etc), and by developing my home business enterprises.

Like many others who practise Permaculture I grow at least some of my own food and employ the design principles in developing my property and guiding my life, activities & associations.

If enterprises like Permaworld are not for you, don't get involved but also don't rubbish it with misinformed generalisations. Please respect the moderators request not to get into "another flamewar". If you're so inspired as to rant about the perceived evils of pyramid schemes, MLM's, companies, money, rich bastards, scams etc just start another thread on that topic. I'm sure there'll be plenty of people who'll love to join in (maybe even me). Fair enough?!

Peace, Love & Happiness.

Earthspirit.

[christopher]

How disappointing that this has cropped up again.

I'm not trying to flame anyone, and perhaps in her enthsiasm for the cornucopian bounty of potential unearned wealth Susan has not looked at the underlying economics critically. I cannot find anything ethical about the predatory economic model, myself, as this is a classic pyramid scheme, with permie window dressing, even if they allegedly donate money to worthy causes.

There was another thread you missed, Murray, on this:
http://forums.permaculture.org.au/viewtopic.php?t=8&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

The economics are still unsustainable and definitely not permacultural. This is exponential growth economics. Without a steady stream of suckers/new members the bottom drops out. You need millions of members to get to the 9th level of growth:

From last year
However, the underlying economics of perpetual growth, of every person signing finding five people, and those five people finding five each, and those 25 finding five each, then each of those 125 people finding another five people, and that 625 finding five more, each, and that 3125 finding another five per person, etc, is not supportable, and the bottom HAS to drop out eventually... WITHIN 4 MORE LEVELS, THEY NEED TO FIND A BASE OF 9,765,625 PEOPLE. To support the next level, the pyramid needs 48,828,125 people. After that, 2.4 billion people. The following levels.... 12.2 billion people, and then I think we need new planets to support this type of growth economics. That ain't going to happen.

There is nothing wrong with making money or wanting to make money. I like making money mydelf. However, preying on others inability to see a mathmatically unsustainable economic model is wrong. It is unfortunate that there seems to be enough greedy and unprincipled, or naive and hopeful people out there to float these peoples scam. Most of the people will never see a single penny in return, though the organizers are making plenty. This is not "capitalism", its a pyramid!

So, no flame war here, I leave this thread alone to those who care to discuss it, and I won't be dragged back in, and will give Susan all the space she wants to respond, but anyone who gives any money into this is a victim of their own greed or naivety.

Peace!

[FREE Permaculture]

well it's not really a pyramid, it's MLM and there are usually 2 aspects of the biz', 1) signing up and 2) selling product which makes money like avon.
that aeroplane game, now thats a pyramid and pure scam, I was in one years ago, I got out and made my $10,000 but 3 of my friends that paid me $1000 to get in lost out so I ended up giving them $2000 each 'cos i stooged them into it and were all still friends :)

Amway is your classic mlm thing, i was in it years ago too, once i stood up in front of 800 people at a convention and got a standing ovation, I was so pumped i thought i'd rule the friggin world!
well, I didn't make anything, travelled the state for meetings and all and never made any money, incidently there are only 27 diamond distributors in australia in 40 years of biz', most have been so for more than 15 years and probably earn 50k - 60k per year, not much considering they devote their life to it convincing their thousands of people downline that this could be them on day :)

I think if Susan wants to do it then that's great! from her website it looks like she's pretty keen on it so that's great and I hope you do well Susan.

But there is one problem that stands out to me, you see, amway don't do it via the internet with refferal links, it needs to be done personally, what is to stop large web sites to have their link too? so like if i was your friend and signed up online somewhere, then i find that your in it too then i'd probably prefer to sign up under you, but i could be under someone god knows where, maybe in kazakstan! or worse still bloody Belize! :lol: :)

it was a well thought of idea to use permaculture and organics ect, also for sharing it in a permaculture forum is quite clever, if it was the 1980's. but being online we see refferal links everyday so no matter how well your prospecting is cloaked, it still stands out like a sore thumb.
maybe you should just join forums and say nothing except having the link in your signature? that way people who are curious will look and decide for themselves, 'cos there's no way people will sign up if they think that's your only intentions.

I think though in your situation, your doing well to give things a go.
if you don't succed, try try again and if you do it long enough, something will happen for sure, money wasn't meant to come easy though.

have you tried pureprofile and emailcash? since your online, why not sign up yourself and the kids? I got $30 a few months back, so did my mum and my cat :razz:

[Richard on Maui]

Yeah, money is just a concept... Just like that sea level that's gonna rise because we can't just share what we have.

[earthspirit]

Thank you Chickadee for acknowledging that Permaworld is not a pyramid scheme. It operates the same way other affiliate marketing businesses do. They have a number of products which can be purchased. You don't have to join if you don't want to. Joining is free if you do. Some services are also available free including some advertising for your existing activities.

Indeed, the products are what is most valuable to me because I have been paying $25/mth for website hosting + $25/mth for autoresponder for the last 2 years. Maybe I'm stupid & naive for paying this much when perhaps I could have got it for free but what quality and service? Another useful tool would be a tracking system but it would be another expense. By purchasing the hosting package with Permaworld I get all of that and more for $10/mth. Seems like good economic sense to me to make the switch. Just working on the principle that a 'penny saved is a penny earned'.

Anybody can just purchase the products without having to get involved with sponsoring new subscribers though rewards are offered to do that, a practise done by other web hosting businesses I could name (who are more expensive).

I participate in the affiliate marketing aspect as it may contribute something to my overall income in the longrun. I'm an affiliate of several businesses but the two mentioned are the only ones I'm actively promoting now because the ethical foundation upon which these businesses have been built is the same as I endeavour to live. Also, I use many of the products myself and genuinely like them.

Ultimately it is 'the sum of the yield' which counts. I earn a little money from a variety of other pursuits such as face painting, art & craft, hair cuts etc. I didn't mention these things (or others) in my introduction of myself because those activities are of lesser interest or relevance to people in a Permaculture forum (particularly if you don't live close to me). I haven't made any attempt to cloak my promotion of the enterprises. I mentioned it because I thought it might be of relevant interest to other people in this forum who, like me, are presumably into Permaculture and probably organics as the two things are often associated.

In answer to your question about joining under someone from wherever but preferring to join under a friend, essentially it's too bad. If you read the terms & conditions with most affiliate businesses you can cancel your subscription at anytime and rejoin with your friend after at least 6mths. Of course you would lose any downline you had established. Why does it matter who you join with in most instances anyway? A good business will have adequate if not excellent tools & training resources available to its members in their member area with your sponsor being available to you to ask questions of when necessary.

As to these businesses being limited by only operating on the Internet, both Permaworld & Organic & Natural Enterprise (ONE) Group are not restricted to online activities. I have tried some other strategies. The Internet strategy suits me best as I live in a community where the population of the township is about 100 and I must travel at least 11km to the next town (pop. about 400). It's not necessarily any easier. It takes a lot of time, learning new skills, persistence & sometimes money. I feel that I work hard for all remuneration I earn, even that which is ultimately passive. This way I can stay home; look after my family, save fuel, plant my garden, work on my property and the many other activities I enjoy.

Having now introduced myself thoroughly and discussed the issues raised by that action, I'll further explore the rest of this forum and see what else I'd like to share with members or can learn.

Oh, by the way, I already do the emailcash thing. I might even be due for $30 by now too! It's all part of the sum of the yield.

P.S. money does come easy for some people (though I'm not one). Is that such a terrible thing?

Celebrate abundance!
Earthspirit.

[chooky]

Howdy

You sound similar to me in someways minus the kids and 14 years experience .

My logic is basically..... you can't buy much with gumnuts.

I have been in a couple of MLM's... but I didn't stick with em because I can't sell.
Well maybe I could... but I had other ideas. I can see plenty of logic in MLM's as a way of making money if you are restricted from doing so in other ways but it can be very difficult aswell. You can cop alot of crap for it.

I never made any money, just heard alot of exited people talking about making it.

I was left with gumnuts *sigh*


But all that aside, chat to me whenever you like. I don't get worked up about much :D

Sarah.

[Tezza]

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Tezza