Withholding period for dog wormers - Worm farms

[Tamandco]

Hi Everyone,

I'm hoping someone can give me some advice on this subject matter.

I know a lot of permies out there wouldn't condone the use of dog wormers, coming under the description of insecticides, but one thing I am diligent about is vaccinating and worming my animals regularly.

The instructions with my worm farm advise not to add dog poo if the dog has been wormed recently, for obvious reasons but it doesn't recommend the withholding period, i.e. how long does it take for the active ingredients to be be eliminated from the animal.

With cattle and horse wormers, it usually stipulates the withholding period if the animal is to be slaughtered for human consumption. I'd imagine there'd be a similar recommendation re dog (and cat)wormers.

Hope you can help,
Tam

[Chook Nut]

Hi Tam,

My permie teacher advised us to wait a month b4 using horse poo etc. This period allows for any residual worming stuff to break down. (this is what i have been taught, others may have been told different though!)

On a side note have you done any research re: what natural products/therapies you can use besides the chemical treatment from vets?

The reason i ask is that i am getting some pretty good feedback from a produce supplier i visit. I will make a post about what i have learnt,(or he has learnt and passed onto me), later today if i get the chance.

Cheers .... Dave

[Tamandco]

Thanks Chooknut (Dave). I'd be very interested in hearing about what natural remedies are available for dogs and cats. Can you also check on their affectiveness against heartworm too.

I am extremely reluctant to go the whole hog when it comes to animal welfare. I worked in an animal shelter for several years and involved in the harness racing industry and I have seen horrific consequences due to worm infestation.

This subject could be a whole new post in itself as there are a lot of helpfull do's and do not's in relation to this subject.

As far as horses go, any newcomers onto our property are kept on a worming program for a year (to cover all seasons). During which time we collect the manure and compost it. I've seen a lot of horse owners merely heap the manure up somewhere in the paddock, which really does very little to remove the risk as horses will still graze around the heap if the grass isn't too sour, or if there's little else to eat.

We then stop worming, and instead get a yearly worm test done to check that levels are acceptable.

I've used copper sulfate (as recommended by Pat Coleby) but have found this not to be affective in eliminating an existing infestation.

[Chook Nut]

Hi again,

Just posted the new topic.... its not comprehensive but hopefully it will get some more discussion and ideas floating around.

I agree that your pets arent worth risking by going out on a limb with treatments that arent proven! But I do believe that there must be good natural remedies out there.... after all we've been domesticating these animals for centuries. We know that some pests like worms are going to be ongoing and most vets aren't going to know too much re: natural solutions, so that means us having to study it for ourselves.

I know copper sulphate is acceptable under organic certification and can be used on most livestock; and i like your decision to compost the manure away from where the horses eat... it makes sense.

Dave

[millefleurs]

Hi Tamandco

Interested to learn that you put dog poo into the worm farm. I tried at one stage, but the worms did not seem at all interested, and the turds sat around undisturbed and extremely unattractive. I had red wrigglers and tiger worms in there, which I think are classified as manure worms, but they much preferred vegie scraps to poo. Any suggestions for encouraging them to process it?

Millefleurs

[Tamandco]

Hi Millefleurs,

I can't say I've had a great log of success with putting the dog poo in the worm farm either.

My worm farms are a 'Can'o'worms' and a 'Worm Factory', plus I gave my mum a 'Tumbleweed Worm Farm' for Christmas about 4 years ago, which I have a bit to do with. I can't honestly imagine that they'd be much different from one another in function as they're pretty much all similar designs.

Since starting this post, I've actually acquired an instruction manual for the Can'o'worms as I didn't have one to start with. (My worm farms came from the hard rubbish collection). Anyway, it recommends a withholding period of a few weeks for animal manures to ensure that any vermicides are no longer active. I suppose I've just answered my own question but it's an interesting subject anyway.

Tumbleweed actually advertise a specific Dog Poo worm farm in The Organic Gardener magazine. The add says that the secret is not to give the worms a choice by putting other kitchen wastes in as well. It also says not to put cat poo in as the worms don't seem keen on them. It claims that once fully operational, it can handle the droppings of 2 average size dogs in less than 48 hours.

Another worm farm called the 'Eco-Bin', which is advertised in a free magazine called Australian Better Gardens and Home Ideas magazine available from various outlets such as your local nursery hardware or Produce store, also lays claim to being able to process Dog and Cat droppings.

I guess what I should be doing differently is keeping one worm farm exclusively for the dog poo and the other one for the kitchen scraps. I might try that and let you all know how it works.

Tam

[millefleurs]

Hi Tam

I have been thinking further on the topic since your first post. I wonder if the term 'manure worm' was coined for those worms that ate the droppings of horses, cattle etc. These animals are herbivores, and their droppings contain lots of semi digested vegetation. Whereas dogs and cats are carnivores, and their poo contains animal products. Perhaps the manure worms are never going to be interested in processing dog droppings. Certainly, the worms I had in my Reln worm farm would eat everything else in the tray except the doggy-do. In a similar vein, there are lots of different bacteria working away vigorously in the worm farm (and compost bins) to break down various elements alongside the worms. The bacteria weren't doing much good with the dog turds either. In summary - experience suggests don't bother putting dog poo into your worm farm!

[noog]

Hello,

I was interested in the waiting period mentioned here with respect to using manure for worm farming. How long should I let the manure mature! before using it for a worm farm? What happens if you don't wait?

Thanks

Nigel

[gardenlen]

can i throw my 2 cents worth in here if i may?

all the way along the line i've been told never to use cat or dog business in your composting for food gardens ok?

now the reason were that even when you worm the animals the treatment doesn't kill the egg which when you do your vege' gardening can end up under you nails maybe!! and into your system where these eggs hatch to the detriment to your liver ok?? that's how i've always heard it along the way.

and at the end of the day you have so much other stuff to use so why bother? find a dark corner up the back of the yard and bury the stuff ok?

and from this organic/permie gardener why even use horse crap? horses cop heaps of chemical treatments there is lots cleaner stuff to use, for me that is pure organic plant waste, can't be any chemical residues i don't use any.

and as for worm farms and compost heaps i cut the middle man out ok? my gardens are now my worm farms and compost bins boosts productivity and hey heaps more time to enjoy that favoured red (cordial that is).

well that's how i/i'd do it cheers

len 8)