A Permaculture Caravan Park

[ho-hum]

I have often played around with designs for a Permaculture Caravan Park as I have a fair lump of land that is in the town boundary and not far off the main Adelaide to Darwin highway. The block is flat, has good water & power but no sewage access. The area is tropical savannah. I cant see anyway of getting around the use of septic tanks for all grey/blackwater.

This isnt a 'me getting something for nothing' scheme. It would be a financed commercial venture that would hopefully have something more to offer the traveller than just shade & a shower. It would be aimed at the travelling public and not the ''permanent'' market and due to weather wouild be probably shut for 4 months a year.

I have thought about this for 5 years but would like to toss it out into the forum for suggestions, pitfalls, thoughts, musings and good ideas. Would it attract the right people? Is human nature such that people would just exploit the resources because it was 'free'?

Over to you.


floot

[Douglas J.E. Barnes]

My only thoughts are on the "waste" water. Is it a regulation problem you have? I know that most places here in Ontarion require you to put in a septic system even if you have a sensible system like a bactia-driven water cleaning device or a purifying marsh.

[Tezza]

Hey Floot this is a wonderfull idea..

Thats what i like a vision only 5 years thinking.
Sounds like an Eco village for people on the move,

If ya wont a hand or Ideas Give us a call.
Im travelling a bit in the future and would love to visit up there maybe even woof for you for a nites rest..

GO FOR IT

Tezza

[Alex M]

That's an excellent idea, Floot. Grey Nomads would love it, and I reckon quite a few would end up staying on. I can see the authorities being nervous about composting toilets or any treatment system that is the least bit "unconventional" (bless 'em), but there's a new system, Biolytix, that might be of interest to you. http://www.biolytix.com/

How soon can I book a site? 8)

[ho-hum]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. Now I know I am know I am on the right track.

I have vexed over the water issue but if I site the ablutions blocks carefully I can run the septic lines under a fence and still plant all sorts over the rubble drains.

Anyone who has followed me in these threads will have heard me whinge and moan about cane toads. This means that any sort of ground level pondage is out. I seriously couldnt bear to give them breeding habitat.

I had fancied designing something like an alley cropping setup for people shelter with an attached orchard and perennial vegie/chook garden and NO SWIMMING POOL ffs. :shock:

Certainly a place that grey nomads can pull into and recharge their batteries. A lot of Territorians travel with just a swag so a nice shady patch of lawn, a barbecue and a hot shower sorts them out.

floot

[Richard on Maui]

I tried to write a reply to this earlier but our computer crashed in the middle. My wife can actually get it to work again by massaging the hard drive... bizarre.
So, I was saying that Floot, wouldn't composting toilets save you the problem of blackwater, almost entirely? They can be a management issue, and you would need a good source of carbon, but it would give you a whole lot of fertiliser. Talk about cashing in. There are various designs that make use of the moisture from the urine in the composting process, or you can do subterranean drains, and grow part of the carbon that goes into the toilet on the nutrient from the drain.

[RobWindt]

Urine separating toilets are available with holding tanks or leach drains to citrus etc. http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/earth/ ... s17821.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/earth/stories/s17821.htm)
Early Chinese farmers used to compete for valuable compost by building enticing public toilets alongside their property

[barely run]

Envirosystems are well acceptted by councils....they are a septic system that recycles grey water, Used in heritage listed areas and many households in QLD and NSW. A permaculture caravan park would be not much different to a "normal" one. More recycle bins....food scraps to the worm farm and the chooks that are penned with deep litter at the back of the park....perhaps with a walk in area to see the various chooks, quails, guinea pigs etc etc .. The shade trees would all be food bearing...native and other types....as little lawn as possible....water collection roof covers on each site...solar panels for hot water. Herbs and vegies planted around the place or in grow beds for a large aquaponic system that sells fresh fish and vegies to the customers. Don't discount permanents could be a small number of permies who would love to live onsite permanently, average charges are about $140 pw so good cash flow. They would also be a work force for bigger projects with barter work for rent or similar
Keep the dream alive.
Cathy

[Douglas J.E. Barnes]

"Waste" means that you are throwing money away - paying to do something that either could be done cheaper, or paying to throw away a saleable product. Perhaps if you registered 2 separate businesses: one is the caravan park, the other is a garden compost manufacturing business. The latter business focuses on collecting compostable material for, well, composting.

Sometimes this kind of run-around is what it takes to get approval. My father wanted a "workshop" and presented the coucil with plans for a 3 room building (essentially a house) that was rejected: "No, sorry. No workshops there." He then presented the same plan to the same person calling it a "utility shed" (the name we jokingly call it to this day) and it was approved.

On the idea of registering two separate businesses, they are both owned by the same corporation (owned by you) that operate on land you rent out to the corporation. The corporation then writes off the rent as an expense. Any improvements you make to the land you rent out to the (your) corporation are then tax deductable - provided the improvements are related to either of the two businesses. (My brother is currently renting out his basement to his corporation as storage space and claiming improvements as expenses.)

It may not be necessary to have 2 companies - who knows? But you can play around a bit until you find the satisfactory combination that pleases the Golgafrincham middlemen.

[macree]

I can't imagine you'd have any probs getting composting loos approved either as they are in most national parks and many roadside rest areas.

[ho-hum]

Hey this bloke has the right idea.


http://www.permaculture.co.uk/mag/Articles/Living_With_Birds.html

Now THAT looks like cheap living and a great caravan site. Sorta like 'guerilla housing'.


floot

[naturally inspired]

your idea is great floot! i would seriously consider composting loos. we had them at the university campus i went to (the whole place was sustainably designed). the only issue with them was that current nsw (or maybe it was just local council?) regulations meant that the composted material has to e buried 3 feet underground rather than being used on gardens.

its a shame about the canetoads, other wise a greywater treatment pond system would be great.

as for the caravan park itself, im sure lots of people would love it. they wouldnt need to go to a supermarket to get food, breakfast, lunch and dinner could be supplied straight out of the garden! what a novelty to go out and pick your own breakfast or lunch! they can either prepare it themselves or maybe you could employ someone to do it for them (it is a holiday after all) but it depends on the market you attract. caravanners wont mind cooking for themselves. you could have fresh fish and meat avaialble for them to purchase if they want to.

great idea. similar to somehting i want to do!

p.s. malcolm living in the forest is a inspiration!

[jackie]

Just got back from a trip t tassie with the idea of moving there. Have the same type of idea. See a caravan park as a possible income stream in an area currently relyant on tourism. Farm land was mainly beef cattle which was perferable to plantations in other areas of the state and we would be looking at a farm rather than bush block so we can plant it as we would like and have animals etc. Longer term we are looking for a place to position ourselves post peak oil. Feel a caravan park set up would open the way for an permie community on edge of a small town. A caravan park would also be ideally suited to short courses as people have accomodation and sense of community whilst there. Haven't thought much about design but circular idea of vans side on door facing into a centre area to facilitate the community feel, later check outs with scones and a cuppa to talk to the guests and batter possibility for accomodation. After all there must be a lot of toursts who have amazing skills and knowledge who wouldn't mind a little work to add to the experience of the trip and cheapen their accomodation.

[blackash]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. Now I know I am know I am on the right track.

I have vexed over the water issue but if I site the ablutions blocks carefully I can run the septic lines under a fence and still plant all sorts over the rubble drains.

Anyone who has followed me in these threads will have heard me whinge and moan about cane toads. This means that any sort of ground level pondage is out. I seriously couldnt bear to give them breeding habitat.

I had fancied designing something like an alley cropping setup for people shelter with an attached orchard and perennial vegie/chook garden and NO SWIMMING POOL ffs. :shock:

Certainly a place that grey nomads can pull into and recharge their batteries. A lot of Territorians travel with just a swag so a nice shady patch of lawn, a barbecue and a hot shower sorts them out.

floot

about your cane toads....
If you live in a remote area this idea would work...Get a small cage and put a light in it at the back of the cage...I heard some sceine guy talking about this as being the best way to catch toads, he said that they will travel a fair distance to get to the light..Works best if there is no other lights about..