Millionaire Permaculture...

[Jez]

You just won the lottery - US$20 million to be precise...

What would you do with your new found wealth?

How would Permaculture fit into your plans for the future when money is not really an issue?

Please keep this a happy, hopefully inspiring thread... :D

[earthbound]

Spend 10 million on buying up land in ecologically valuable or fragile areas, then put covenants on these areas...

Spend 5 million on buying a couple of properties in W.A. preferable two totally different climates and regions, and build all the facilities needed to allow people to trial alternative agricultural methods.. Creating institutes that provide the facilities to allow further development of organic and sustainable methods and practices of food production. These properties would also double as short stay accomodation where your average Joe could come and spend a long weekend seeing how things can be done in sustainable ways, ie housing, power, fuels, food etc...

Spend 1 million on permie books and make these available free, one book per person to whoever wants them.. Ensuring that all places of learning and public libraries have copies as well..

Spend another million on the assasination of Johhny Ho... oooh whoops mind going a little to far there...

Wow, 4 left..... A couple would go into some form of charity or perhaps even into some form of investment in an Australian company, to keep it from going into foreign ownership.

1 for myself, for a property, maybe a holiday, and to get my book printed in colour... :lol: And the last million into the bendigo bank, or some form of ethical investment so that there will be a small constant cash flow to help support some of the earlier projects as they need any additional funds......

Gees thats easy to spend 20 mil.... Wow and it was US $ as well.... :D :D :D

What about you Jez???

[SueinWA]

The problem with permaculture in America is getting people to realize that it REALLY IS viable. A place set up and operating so they can see how it works on so many levels.

I would buy a largish piece of property of different terrain, then permaculture it using different methods suitable for the various types of sites: keylining, swales, tree planting, locally suitable plants, including fruits and veggies, cover cropping, etc.

And I would build a passive-solar, straw-bale house and barn with solar and wind power, composting toilets, and energy-efficient heating. And some small cottage-type living quarters for visitors/volunteers/students.

Small livestock, too, to show how they fit in.

And, naturally, an AQUAPONICS SYSTEM (imagine waving figures here).

If there was enough money left over, I would also have a 20 ft high (say 7 metre) concrete block wall put up around the perimeter, topped with broken glass and razor wire. (Like I said, I live in the meth capital of America.)

Sue

[ho-hum]

Spend 10 mill on wine, women & song and the other 10 mill foolishly.


Not really, I dont even buy lotto tickets.

Sue,

I am 46 and live in a remote part of australia at the end of nearly 400 miles of 4wd track and have never really seen or even been confronted by chemical type drug use till the past few years here. This is a very affluent mining community.

I think that your 'meth' is our 'speed' and I believe our little community is awash with it too. Many people have said that to me. I am no expert but I believe that australia's gaols/jails are filled with people incarcerated due to drug-related crimes.

Recently a friend told me that Sudafed, a drug brand that was readily available here is now prescription-only due to it being used and converted to 'speed'. I know of one poor bastard here that cant work without speed and cant work when he is on it. How do we get rid of the demand for this stuff in our communities? How do we stop people from trying it?

It makes me angry because apart from this aspect, I live in, what many would consider, a little Utopia. It seems like substance abuse is a world-wide issue beginning with alchohol abuse. I read a fascinating essay a while ago by a lady in her very late 80s who succinctly argued that caffeine was the societal gateway drug as its use grew world-wide. She also argued that cola drinks addicted our children into caffeine abuse at an early age and our societies would be better off by restricting the sale of such products the same way we do alcohol and tobacco and when we did this we would reduce the impetus for stimulant use/abuse in adults.

Cheers

Mike

Here in Aus, we have Meth houses that provide access to Methadone, which is/was the prescribed way to address heroin. Meth(adone) was considered the lesser evil, maybe? Many users would often spend years on methadone, and some never actually got of it - so I'm not sure if it still promoted as an effective response?

Am thinking Sue is referring to crack houses, though?

[kja]

Am thinking Sue is referring to crack houses, though?

Meth-amphetamine AKA "Ice". Nasty stuff taken oral, intravenously or smoked.

Kim

Has that hit our streets yet, Kim?

[kja]

Ohh yeah. Even out here in the boondocks of Central Western NSW. Its really bad news. The young people I work with are quite often psychotic after use.

Evil stuff :evil:

Kim

I complain sometimes...how behind things are in the bush. You know, the lousy services (crappy phone, power lines), the road teams don't sweep (very annoying), school levels, customer service standards...that kind of thing...but when it comes to drugs, I really can only be grateful we haven't advanced in that area.

Our number one problem is still grog in terms of youth behaviour, crime and health effects, followed by pot which exists in fairly clearly defined subcultures.

Recently we had a kid sending fire crackers in the mail from Sydney... I thought, Whoooo - don't start posting stuff in... :shock: I guess it will get around eventually... but the later the better.

Might stop complaining about the lousy services and just be grateful.

[SueinWA]

Sorry, I am so used to hearing just "meth", that I forgot that it may not be so common in other communities. Methamphetamine is the full name. And yes, the active ingredient is pseudophedrine, an ingredient in some cold medicines. It also contains ingredients like denatured alcohol (shellac thinner), freon, benzene, acetone, chloroform, ammonia, phosphorus, drain cleaner (lye), etc. With use, I've been told the average life span is 6 years, as your body & mind gradually rot away.

Without the pseudophedrine, it is nothing. Several states in the U.S. are making it prescription-only with photo ID, limited to small amounts, putting the buyer's name on a list, etc.

Sorry to hijack this thread with this crap --- I didn't mean to.

Let's get it back to permie stuff, okay?

Sue

Ok, what are you growing over there, Sue? Do you have animals?

[Mike_E_from_NZ]

Sorry to rain on your parade Jez.

1. Where did the $20 million come from so that it could be paid out to you?
2. How much was gambled so that the payout was $20m?
3. What is the govt going to spend its share on. Permaculture? Yeah, sure. What about the profits of the people who make it happen? Permaculture? Yeah, sure.
4. How many of the families who gamble can afford to do so? How many will tell you that fresh fruit is too expensive to buy? Don't have enough time to garden - got to go to work to pay for the lottery tickets.
5. What if YOU don't win? What if someone else wins? This is a possibility, you know - however slight. What are they going to do? Permaculture? Yeah, sure. They will probably consume. And consume. And buy a SUV. And have a holiday in some far flung location. Did I mention airline flights? (Some statistics for you: The 'expected return' of an event is the aggregate of all of the possible outcomes multiplied by the probability of each outcome. When you buy a lottery ticket, the 'expected return is that '99.999999999999999% of the payout will be spent ruining the environment, because most of the possible winners will do exactly that. Only you and the other contributors to this topic would use it to save the world)
6. How much non-renewable resource is required to run the lottery each week? How much non-sustainable logging is undertaken to print the tickets. How much fuel is consumed getting to the shop - most times just to buy the ticket, no other reason? For what? A faint glimmer of hope that this money will solve all of the gambler's problems?

The issue we face in this world are far deeper than we imagine. Every assumption needs to be challenged. Some of the most (to us) obvious things could be contributing to the problems.

Having said all that, I like the wine, women, and song idea.

Mike E

[earthbound]

Hypotheticals I think there Mike E....

I don't imagine for one minute that Jez was sugesting people should buy lotto tickets, or even sugesting that loto was a good thing....

Personally, I think I may have bought one ticket in my life and that was part of a work thing...

Joel

[Jez]

Mike,

I started this thread thinking that it would be a good way for people to express what they would do from a permaculture perspective (and others if they felt like it) if they had no financial restraints - most of us do. It was meant to be a fun thread where dreams could be dreamt if only for a moment and maybe it would be interesting to see how people went about various acts of philanthropy, or indeed if they had any philanthropic intentions at all, perhaps preferring some sort of private industry.

I did not and have not endorsed "gambling." I thought of the easiest, most common way people get instant wealth...mostly because I knew full well some pelican would ask me "how'd ya get the money Jez" rather than focus on the topic...damned if you do, damned if you don't...s'ok...I'm used to human nature as expressed on internet forums after a few years of political sites... :lol:

You haven't 'rained on my parade' mate...you could have used the thread for positive expression...maybe you still will after you realise your mistake... :D

Now to better things...

Thanks Joel and Sue for your responses, yours was really well thought out and very constructive I thought Joel...covered a lot of bases...I loved the free Permaculture books...maybe in hotel drawers across the world? :lol:

...and Sue, you're right, you've got the hardest mission of all being an American...you have my sympathies...I converse with enough to share your pain... :lol:

As to what I would do Joel...I think I'd buy a struggling rural town outright or close to it, then build it back up as a Permaculture village. Rather than have people buy in like an eco-village, have them apply for positions within the village, then give them free land and a house in exchange for a period of work, plus a weekly wage. Try and set up a totally self-sustaining village as an example model, then once it can stay afloat itself, move on to the next project/s via your own cash or interest from others (including those who have been hopefully earning and saving at the first village) based on the first successful model.

I'd definitely buy a couple of solar vehicles for my own selfish pleasure...a 'racer' and a tractor would do just fine...but I'm sure I'd have a battle getting a turn... :lol:

And of course, I would build an Aquaponics system the size of which I can't begin to comprehend... :lol:

[SueinWA]

Lovely idea on the village, Jez!

Sue

[christopher]

Okay, we change it. The Comitte for Rewarding People Who Do Excellent Things for the Planet has just given you USD20,000,000. What would you do with it?

I would, first, buy a few sensitive pieces of property here, land that is valuable in and of itself but has limited agricultural worth and lock it up so it doesn't get destroyed. Um, that land wouldn't cost much...

I would buld a large solar system to generate hydrogen.... for my hydrogen fueled hilux....

I would put half of it in the bank to earn interest for a charitable trust for projects that I know of that are worth funding and are below the radar of most funders. I would never spend any of the principle and only use the interest for that funding.

I would start a project working with commuity based organiztions in heavily populated and impoverished Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Nicaragua, with some work in Costa Rica, Panama and Belize. I would hire a world renowned consultant on aquaponics :wav: and (seeing as how Joel doesn't speak Spanish) send him to Spanish language school for a month, followed by at least 6 months of on the ground work, for which he would be very (EDITED from REASONABLY to the much better: )RICHLY (since I got 20,000,000 smakeroos to throw around) compensated, to start with working in these communities establishing small family or multi family sized systems, to strengthen food security and nutrition in those communities.

I would splurge a little on myself, too. I would buy an espresso machine, with a gleaming brass eagle on top... and use the espresso grounds as a growing medium for mushrooms....

I'd travel a bit, to look at farms, starting in Australia...

Maya Mountain Research Farm would get a new meeting hall and kitchen, a nice large sized aquaponics system and we wuld have more people working here.

I would send my compadres grand kids to college.

I would have the health clinic in San Pedro Columbia expanded, and would fund a nutritionist to work with people in the local communities.

Um, not sure where to go from there (if I win the contest, I will write you a very detailed list of how the monies will be spent.... :lol: )

C

[Mike_E_from_NZ]

:)

Hi all

Didn't think for a minute that anyone was endorsing gambling, but more the point that so many basic assumptions we make in life have unintended consequences. And I certainly didn't intend for anyone to perceive my contribution as negative - or positive for that matter.

Christopher restated the question more carefully, which is probably what we will have to do in the future. Even then, the assumption that is being made is that it requires more money to do a better job. We made that assumption with education, and look where that left us.

I still think the wine, woman and song idea is a good one.



Mike

[Jez]

Thankyou Christopher, that was a wonderful contribution.

I was especially intrigued by your comment on growing mushrooms in coffee grounds...can you elaborate a little on that for me? We have a lot of coffee grounds with a cafe...and I love mushrooms!

Mike, if you want to be objectionable and get up people's nose for no good reason, that's your choice. If you want to be excessively rude and run all over the board holding up your mis-interpretation of my intentions as some sort of example to bash, that's also your choice. I won't be responding any further...

You don't know the first thing about me, or my life, if you did you would realise you're preaching to the long-ago converted.

One day I hope I fathom why so many people have such a desire to willfully cause conflict wherever they go...usually without the slightest constructive purpose in mind...just being objectionable purely because they can.

[christopher]

Coffe grounds, especially from an espresso machine, are sterile. Many mushrooms species can be grown on coffee grounds that have been innoculated.

I want an espresso machine, my own personal consumer fantasy (I have low standard fantasies, espresso machine, not sports cars :lol: ). If I had a pile of disposable income, espresso machine is on the list.

"High pressure steam sterilizer" is what we joke about penning into a grant proposal, justifying an espresso machine for "sterilizing" material to be inocculated... If it was one line item out of many, if the overall proposal was for, say USD25,000, we might be able to get away with it if it was less than USD1500 or so... if we were that unscrupulous... which we are not... another fantasy...

There are some excellent books on mushroom cultivation available. But a site called "Fungi Perfecti" http://www.fungi.com/ has enough inspirational information to make me want to go there..... They have cllasses on growing mushrooms, and we would like to send someone there to bring that knowledge to Belize.

SO, if I win this prize, I'd also set up a mushroom production system.,...

[Jez]

:lol:

Awww, Christopher...I have an expresso machine and I don't drink coffee...what a waste eh mate! :lol:

You need to say that you need it for a small cafeteria when visitors come...what is the point of having your own beans if you can't produce them to their ultimate final finish? It highlights the quality organic produce no? Should be easy to get around in an ethical fashion as I see it mate...

I am very intrigued by the opportunity to use the grounds somewhere other than the compost heap...I have had the seeds of an idea for some time...a greenhouse where the underneath of the planting benches was utilised for mushroom growing. Saw a similar bench set-up years ago and it seemed like a really big waste of space underneath the benches...got me thinking!

[christopher]

Awww, Christopher...I have an expresso machine and I don't drink coffee...what a waste eh mate!

Wow. What a shame.... The universe is not in balance.... YOU can balance it,.... crate the thing up now.... and ship it... to.... me.... you are feeling sleepy.... you are getting out cardboard boxes.... amd the packing tape....

(This is probably not working..... dang..... :lol: )

Fungus growing is not that hard, though it looks intimidating at first. My friend, Fresh, paid for college growing certain high value fungi in the science building.... coffee grounds are a good way to go.

I liked the photos of the various tomatoes and avo's you posted. It sounds either tropical or close (we tropic permies need to swap info). Tell me more about what you do. I saw your post in the sustainable/independence thread....

Christopher

[Jez]

I'm just plodding along making this little space as productive as possible Chris, hopefully it can supply our food business with all the fresh vegie needs when I'm finished (about 10% of the way there now after nearly 3 months at it), plus lots for home.

We hope to move to a bigger piece of land soon and spread our wings a little more.

Field mushies used to grow everywhere in Tassie...not so easy to find now development has eaten up the land they used to grow on. Nothing better than wild mushrooms cooked in a little butter on toast or stuffed with good things.

I stay away from the funny ones... :lol:

[ho-hum]

Jez,

We recognise your input to this forum. I do apologise that we cannot :wav: :sign2: :mumum: or even :sign2: that is a function of this forum and not who you think we are.

If you ever need any :-x :toimonster: :alien: :cheers: :colors: :colors: :stop: rest assured we have the capacity to :argue: :silent: :blob5: and make you feel welcome.

That aside.. feel free to post

Cheers

Mj

[gargun]

Hmmmmm....what would I do with $20 million???

I'd buy a small island in the pacific...build a dream self sufficient house on it...buy a decent sized boat for commuting to the mainland...stock up on masses of food, fuel and other "necessities" :wink: and then I'd stick the rest in banks all over the world in $1 million dollar blocks to earn interest...

The rest of my life would be devoted between caring for my loved ones...growing my own food...and lazing on the beach reading books whilst earning interest...

Bwahahahaha :twisted:

Ray

[Jez]

I won't pretend I was able to decypher much of the above Floot, but thanks for the thought anyway... :lol:

I get a little upset when somebody would rather assume I think a certain way and then goes on to publicly hold me up as a bad example to others, when they don't know a thing about me and didn't bother checking their facts before they launched into their 'spiel'...

IMO, good natured prodding and leading by example wins many more hearts than the 'you must change tomorrow or else' and 'shame on you' missives from the Permaculture pulpit.

I'm not saying things don't need to change tomorrow (or yesterday), I merely acknowledge that utterly negative sermonising and inventing straw men to tear down achieves no actual gains with real people.

In fact, it's a totally wasteful use of THEIR resources...some example they're setting huh! :D

[SueinWA]

Gargun, don't put that much in American banks! Idon't know about the rest of the world, but here the deposits are only insured to cover a hundred thousand dollars. Mind you, that doesn't mean you would GET your hundred grand back if the thing collapsed, more like a dime on the dollar. But if you had TWO hundred grand in one bank, you wouldn't get zip on the second.

Sue

Hey Jez

http://tinypic.com/ipw1dv.jpg

[ho-hum]

Jez,

I was going to respond to the 'mike' thing as I use that name anyway and then realised it was a different 'mike'. I had my 11yo 'helping' me. I started playing with emoticons and went to show him what they looked like with the preview and hit submit instead.


It doesnt make sense to me either... :) :oops:

Merry Christmas though

Mike... err... Floot

Porky pies don't flush any better when you are drawing water from the river in Egypt...try again.

[Jez]

:lol: ...merry wet season Christmas to you Mike AKA Floot...I forgot you were a Mike too.