Small success

[Matt_95]

When I made the switch to permaculture I initially had a few reservations from Mum and Dad so I was given the back yard (but not the lawn) and they kept the front yard. Well needless to say Dad killed off the camellias he was trying to hedge with glysophate. We don't use it anywhere now and I now have had 3 species of frog show up :D I have finally convinced my parents to consider a hedge that has both ornamental value but is also practical. So today I got them to take me to a nursery and we came home with 15 coffee plants and 16 rosemary bushes. I think I have converted them!! I will get pictures up sometime next week :) just thought I would share that with y'all I am very excited :D

[S.O.P]

Congrats.

What's next?

[Pakanohida]

Used Glyphosphate? Really?

Somethings you should read and show your parents:

http://forums.permaculture.org.au/showthread.php?6028-Monsanto-named-in-50-cancer-lawsuits

http://forums.permaculture.org.au/showthread.php?12441-Glyphosate-pathogen-new-to-science

http://forums.permaculture.org.au/showthread.php?12442-Now-glyphosate-found-in-people-s-urine

Each of those 3 threads have more information about glyphosphate then Monsanto wants you to know about.

[Matt_95]

Next plan is a pond. ATM all the frogs get attracted to the pool which is chlorinated. I need an alternate water source for them so they don't die in it. I am also hoping to convert the pool to salt water as chlorine is a carcinogen and salt would be cheaper in the long run but more $$ up front. I tried convincing them to let me use natural filtration but it is "dirty"

I've read through a fair few threads on here about it. I finally convinced them about how bad it is. Well I think they only do it to humor me but at least they have stopped :)

[Ludi]

Consider changing your pool to a natural fresh-water pool! :) This would provide clean swimming for both you and the frogs.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/2002-08-01/Natural-Swimming-Pool.aspx

http://kilk.com/pond/

[Pakanohida]

Next plan is a pond. ATM all the frogs get attracted to the pool which is chlorinated. I need an alternate water source for them so they don't die in it. I am also hoping to convert the pool to salt water as chlorine is a carcinogen and salt would be cheaper in the long run but more $$ up front. I tried convincing them to let me use natural filtration but it is "dirty"

I've read through a fair few threads on here about it. I finally convinced them about how bad it is. Well I think they only do it to humor me but at least they have stopped :)

Sorry, didn't mean to be so preachy. I am just really freaked out by that chemical and what it is doing worldwide. I to had to explain to my father two days ago how insidious it is. Good luck with the pond.

[S.O.P]

Consider changing your pool to a natural fresh-water pool! :) This would provide clean swimming for both you and the frogs.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/2002-08-01/Natural-Swimming-Pool.aspx

http://kilk.com/pond/
Or even this if we are going extreme permaculture!? Convert your eco-unfriendly pool into a biologically attractive fish farm (http://permaculture.org.au/2009/07/21/convert-your-eco-unfriendly-swimming-pool-into-a-biologically-active-and-attractive-fish-farm/).


Sorry, didn't mean to be so preachy. I am just really freaked out by that chemical and what it is doing worldwide.

You wouldn't like where I work then. They use it like it's lolly-water full of sunshine and goodness for everyone!

[Ludi]

Or even this if we are going extreme permaculture!?


I have a wild idea for both in the same pool, though it might be kind of weird to swim with that many fish!

[S.O.P]

I have a wild idea for both in the same pool, though it might be kind of weird to swim with that many fish!
Kids might not like the biting effect that curious fish may bestow.

For example, my 4 (nearly 5) year old is still freaked out by the 'Kreepy Krawley' or 'Pool Cleaner'. I'm not sure dark depths with flashes of silver while a frog swims past will go down well.

[Matt_95]

I've already floated that idea they said it was too "dirty" it's not something they will change their mind on. Oh well, I have my fish inside :)

[Ludi]

Even after showing them all the beautiful pictures of natural swimming pools? http://www.naturalswimmingpools.com/

[Pakanohida]

Kids might not like the biting effect that curious fish may bestow.

For example, my 4 (nearly 5) year old is still freaked out by the 'Kreepy Krawley' or 'Pool Cleaner'. I'm not sure dark depths with flashes of silver while a frog swims past will go down well.

Fish are not kept in a natural swimming pool. Fish that would be included would be more scared of the human then the human of the fish. They would not bite.

[Ludi]

Fish are not kept in a natural swimming pool.

That's an interesting statement of "fact" which I'm not totally convinced is absolutely true.

"Most natural swimming pools have fish in them, but you don’t have to worry about them bothering you or biting your toes. These fish are friendly, and they’re more interested in getting acquainted with the algae and insects in the pool. Plus, they’re very relaxing to watch, and you can feed them when you’re not swimming!"

http://greenopolis.com/goblog/green-groove/get-closer-nature-all-natural-swimming-pool

In any case, I think one might have a fish side and a human side to the pool (with a division of some sort between, perhaps the shallow filter zone). I've personally decided to have a frog pond instead of a fish pond, I think, and keep the fish to the aquaponics. :)

[mischief]

My step sister uses a sand filter system for their pool,could this be an option for you.
I dont know never having had a pool myself.

Might be case of one step at a time, looking at what will move your property closer and closer to how you want it in easily manageble bites.
I seriously recommend changing things bit by bit rather than going all out like we did.
That way you get to learn how things need tweaking and can keep ontop of everything rather than having to play catch up cos so many things take off all at once.

[S.O.P]

Fish are not kept in a natural swimming pool. Fish that would be included would be more scared of the human then the human of the fish. They would not bite.

That was in reference to this:


Or even this if we are going extreme permaculture!? Convert your eco-unfriendly pool into a biologically attractive fish farm (http://permaculture.org.au/2009/07/21/convert-your-eco-unfriendly-swimming-pool-into-a-biologically-active-and-attractive-fish-farm/).

[Pakanohida]

That was in reference to this:


Actually, it was in reference to the book Ludi cited which explains in detail how to make a natural swimming pool & suggests NOT to keep fish, and I agree. Keeping fish in a swimming area is well beyond the scope of 99% of people to handle due to increased pollution.

It just so happens I read the book Ludi posted and took notes last month, it is in my local library now. 8)

[Finchj]

Congrats on the new plants Matt!

Saline pools are very nice to swim in, although I don't know more about them than that.

You can always have a few fish in your frog ponds, which are basically what our ponds are for. 15 cent feeder gold fish keep the mosquitos away, and they also enjoy eating any bugs we throw in there. They devoured the squash bugs that invaded this year.

[Ludi]

Fish eat frog eggs and small tadpoles, so it's best not to keep fish in dedicated frog ponds.

[Ludi]

suggests NOT to keep fish, and I agree. Keeping fish in a swimming area is well beyond the scope of 99% of people to handle due to increased pollution.

Seems to be a wide divergence of opinion about fish in natural swimming pools, from "you shouldn't keep fish in a natural swimming pool" to "most natural swimming pools have fish in them." :think:

[Finchj]

Thats why you give the tadpoles some shelter, although you are right. Goldfish eat literally everything. Poor frogs :(

[Matt_95]

If I was to use goldfish I will be using the best quality show goldfish we can get in Australia. They will have lots of problems eating taddies. I will probably just use delicate blue eyes as I love that species.

I use plants to filter the water of most of my fish tanks, the amount of waste they produce is realy not much. I don't think adding a few fish would really have an noticable effect. It would be a different story if it was highly stocked to grow fish for food though.

[Pakanohida]

Seems to be a wide divergence of opinion about fish in natural swimming pools, from "you shouldn't keep fish in a natural swimming pool" to "most natural swimming pools have fish in them." :think:

I went with the books recommendation. /shrug

However, as a child I spent summers near West Point, NY and there were man made lakes stocked with bass and other fish that I swam in regularly.

It literally comes down to how much care a person wants to put in, will they need an actual filter system as opposed to only needing plants. Are you going to have a mud bottom or not? The amount of variables can be overwhelming.

Additionally, fish will attract predators such as racoons, and skunks at the very least in the US, and deer exceptionally often in the suburban parts of many places I lived in the US as well thus a fence is needed. With fish you also have the added bonus of flying predators as well, so a person will need bird scares over the pond.

[Matt_95]

It literally comes down to how much care a person wants to put in, will they need an actual filter system as opposed to only needing plants. Are you going to have a mud bottom or not? The amount of variables can be overwhelming.



Actually plants will filter the water fine if you want to stock fish, their roots act as a biological filter, housing bacteria and taking up the waste. They will also trap the fish waste in their roots/media :)

[Shawburn]

Hedge with Rosemary and Coffee sounds interesting.
Have you planted it yet? Did you include other plants in the hedge?
I'm like hedges for the habitat and food it creates while utilitarian too.

[Matt_95]

Hedge with Rosemary and Coffee sounds interesting.
Have you planted it yet? Did you include other plants in the hedge?
I'm like hedges for the habitat and food it creates while utilitarian too.
Very late reply here, yes I have the rosemary hedge is growing well a fair few died though as when I planted them it rained far to much for them and they succumbed to the wet. The coffee is looking pretty ratty, I think it's either getting to much sun, the soil is to poor or maybe something else, I will get a photo this weekend for advice.