Anyone here use the " Back To Eden" gardening method..

[rod champion]

It consist of covering your ground with 6' or so of wood mulch.. not plow it it in.. but on the surface...
I have worked my old fanny off on this... secondly, I have covered the chips with Black Gold .. leaf compost and manure. Planting time is within 2 months here in North Carolina- USA. I am wondering exactly how to plant the seeds. Make a furrow to the ground.. put some compost in furrow.. then seeds?
I have always plowed, tilled and hoed .. but have never done this way before . can anyone give me some ideas on planting.
This method is from a film " Back to Eden" on the internet . Very fasinating .
Thank you in advance.
Rod

[eco4560]

Any chance you can pop up a link to the video so we can see what it is about?

Wood mulch is carbon carbon and more carbon and will cause nitrogen draw down as it breaks down. I'd have my doubts about it being a good way to build soil, but not having seen the video I might be missing something.

[rod champion]

Eco-- here it is:
http://backtoedenfilm.com/

[Pakanohida]

It consist of covering your ground with 6' or so of wood mulch.. not plow it it in.. but on the surface...
Rod

Did you really mean you wish to cover your ground with 6 feet, aka 2m of mulch?

I believe you meant 6" (inches) or 15cm which could be laid in swales on contour or as part of sheet mulching an orchard that is filled with grass.

[rod champion]

No sir- I mean 6" of chips..
Thank you for pointing that out .
Rod

[wmthake]

I saw that video.
I think that the idea is great, as long as it's just one guy doing it in his backyard.

Once your friend sees the "back to eden" eden video, you can be sure you'll be punching each other's faces over who gets dibs on the mulch. Don't believe me? Add a few more friends doing the same thing and let's see what happens. Or not.

That video centers on one resource, that while plentiful now, may not be so cheap in the future, especially with more and more people using the method. And while bark is free, to cover ground every season is also a lot of wood chips.

They are starting to sell woodchips in places. It's only free until they see you and a bunch of other people wanting to haul it away. Then it's not free anymore.

Another reason I found the film disturbing is that any time you put external resources into your land, who knows what can happen. Where were those trees? Next to a toxic waste dump? You don't know.

I'm sure don't know anyone with a huge, gas-guzzling tumbler to make wood-chips for my garden of eden, so I don't know how practical this is even on that note. Probably doesn't scale well. And if it doesn't scale well, the video should probably not be promoting this as "the solution" to save us.

These were my major sticking points with the film. For the most part I liked it and I thought it was produced well and the main character was credible and heartfelt. Oh, but I didn't like that he pruned his trees. Major negative points there.

As for your case... I don't see anything wrong per-se about putting 6 inches of wood chips on your ground. As long as you're not mixing it into the soil and it's going over the soil, I don't think it's going to cause nitrogen deficiency. I think the video is okay in the method. It's those other things that are the problem, which are mainly long term situations (7 years of chems in the ground if you're unlucky+increasing price of woodchips)...

Better than woodchips is hugelculture, if you have wood.

As for sowing, I think he probably doesn't sow into the mulch. He probably starts plugs and then plants them. Or he might scrape back the mulch, plant, wait a couple weeks, and then re-mulch. That's my guess.

Sorry for the rant...=-
best,
William

[rod champion]

6" Pakanohida.. Thanks for catching.
method is at: backtoedenfilm.com
Thank you,
Rod

[CrazyGardenChick]

This sounds very interesting. I might be inclined to give this a whirl myself. Upon googling I found a much better more inclusive and informative link as I've posted here for you all to check out as well. They speak of screened woddchips which is more readily useable. You'll see this in here though! http://backtoedenfilm.com/how_to/index.html

[relishproductionsinc]

The science behind the technique is sound. It is true that adding that much carbon to the soil will tie up all the nitrogen. But by placing it on top of the soil it will decompose separately and allow the nutrients released from said decomposition to trickle into the soil during periods of precipitation. Not to mention the benefits of mulch such as water retention and weed control. Bark chips or other regular mulches will work but the film focuses on chipped branches and the like from a tree service. There is a mixture of very small to fairly large pieces allowing for a continuous decomposition and fairly rapid results. Apply in the fall and your garden is good to go in the spring, no tilling, fertilizing etc. And it's good to go for the whole season with little to no watering required. We rent so we cannot actually put in a garden on the property but I am going to attempt the process in containers this year and see what happens. The film is free to watch online but I purchased it and have shared with friends and family to mutual awe and inspiration. Best of luck!

~Rex

Oh, and it is 6 inches, not feet.

http://backtoedenfilm.com/

[relishproductionsinc]

For planting, especially in the first year, furrow down to the soil and plant your seeds, in compost if you like. and after the plants are established rake the mulch back over the furrow being careful not to damage the crop. There is a demonstration at some point in the film.

[rod champion]

Chick... that is what I needed.. the page you brought..
Thanks

[Pakanohida]

I don't know the film, but placing 6" of coarse woody mulch be it in your compost, on the flood of your establishing food forest, or in your garden, adding OM (organic matter) is a good thing.

RE: Hugelkulture, DO NOT DO IT ON HEAVY CLAY SOIL, in fact a dead wood swale on top of soil is better then burying wood for hugelkutlure.

It is by FAR better to lasagna sheet mulch any area as prep for veg or good forest then to do Hugelkulture.

Lastly, after getting "Soils" from PRI and learning about 18 day compost and other things... ..by far the best money I have ever spent in gardening / agriculture aside from more plants, shrubs & / or trees being the exception.




If you were going to lasagna sheet mulch deeply, place the cardboard down, then the mulch. Where you plant, make a hole going down to the cardboard, cut a hole. Place some compost in there, plant your transplant or seed now. Easy peasy.

There are numerous threads about this method of growing, and it works by far better then hugelkulture, with the added benefit of revitilzing your soil over a greater area then just 1 hugel bed.

[wmthake]

RE: Hugelkulture, DO NOT DO IT ON HEAVY CLAY SOIL, in fact a dead wood swale on top of soil is better then burying wood for hugelkutlure.

Hmm...I'm currently doing in on heavy clay soil (installed October 2011) and so far it's going well. The soil doesn't seem to compact nearly as much. I'm 1/4 the way through this year long experiment.

I was much more worried about my choice of wood than the choice of soil.

I also did two, side-by-side experiments with huglekulture, one with a clay soil+manure mound, the other with a base of branches+clay soil+manure+topped with rocks oats on it. It may have had something to do with the timing, but the one with wood is still high and growing strong, the other has almost completely dissolved and the oats are dead.

I heard Lasagne-style beds aren't good over the long term, robbing potassium and other trace nutrients. Is that wrong?

William

[Ludi]

RE: Hugelkulture, DO NOT DO IT ON HEAVY CLAY SOIL, in fact a dead wood swale on top of soil is better then burying wood for hugelkutlure.

I think this depends on where you live. Here in dry Central Texas, I'm having dramatic success with buried wood beds in heavy clay. :)

[Pakanohida]

You would be better off (IMO) with deep lasagna sheet mulching. After 1 year, the soil broke down into this black rich soil filled with life here on my property, however, I did also include pioneer plants such as daikon to help break up the clay.

Hugel beds in heavy clay soils have a tendency to pool the water and make it difficult for the water to get out. This doesn't occur however when the hugel bed is created as a deadwood swale (on contour) which is on top of the soil.

They are similar, but not the same & work differently. With the deadwood swale, the water collects underneath, rots the wood providing food for the soil inhabitants, and as such, makes the soil better for water retention and growing.

Then again, this is just based on my experience for my situation. If you can, I recommend trying both and see what works better after 1, 3, 5, 10, 30 years.

[Ludi]

You would be better off (IMO) with deep lasagna sheet mulching.

The mulch dried out for me. Our situations are very different! :)

[Yukkuri_Kame]

Hugel beds in heavy clay soils have a tendency to pool the water and make it difficult for the water to get out.

I think Ludi's point is, "What water?"

My situation is a little less extreme than hers, but guessing hugel pits may work fine here. We've got clay and decomposed granite.

[Ludi]

Yes, I'd be thrilled to have some water pooling around. :)

[rod champion]

in the video- Paul says he gets 15" or so a year. He never has to water... never... For the last 20 years here, if you don't get corn out early, it will not make.
The lack of need for water and no weeds interest me.

[Ludi]

So much depends on latitude. 15" of rain at 40+ degrees N latitude is very different from 15" of rain at 30 degrees latitude (where I am). I think we got about 12" last year...:(

I'm not saying deep mulch is bad, I'm just saying it may be, under certain conditions, inadequate.

[rod champion]

I don't know-- I have done it all the hard way all my life... so am very new to these new ways. So I have gone head on into this.. It is certainly work at first.. my arms ache at the moment. But in the long haul.. that is what I am after

[Pakanohida]

So much depends on latitude. 15" of rain at 40+ degrees N latitude is very different from 15" of rain at 30 degrees latitude (where I am). I think we got about 12" last year...:(

I'm not saying deep mulch is bad, I'm just saying it may be, under certain conditions, inadequate.

Period of Record Monthly Climate Summary

Period of Record : 5/16/1942 to 3/31/1954


Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
Average Max. Temperature (F) 51.1 56.1 57.4 62.2 66.3 69.0 74.6 75.3 74.5 66.6 59.0 53.7 63.8
Average Min. Temperature (F) 33.4 37.1 37.2 41.1 44.4 47.4 50.6 50.8 47.3 44.2 39.4 36.7 42.5
Average Total Precipitation (in.) 9.89 6.81 7.36 3.39 2.78 1.88 0.52 0.52 1.37 5.60 9.40 9.48 58.99
Average Total SnowFall (in.) 1.5 0.3 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.9
Average Snow Depth (in.) 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Percent of possible observations for period of record.
Max. Temp.: 92.1% Min. Temp.: 85.9% Precipitation: 97% Snowfall: 95.5% Snow Depth: 97%


Neat huh? I love the internet, just wish it was faster for me. :)



Ludi (or anyone else), do you know how deeply they mulched in Jordan when they created Permaculture there?

[Dzionik]

There is much more diversity in wood chips then just carbon lignin-cellulose thing. Literature on plant litter are vast, and some must be studied to understand what you are dealing with. Generally branches from 2-8 cm have more nutrients than leafs and trunk. Here is some quick search:

http://books.google.rs/books?id=cofzgdebwm0C&pg=PA53&lpg=PA53&dq=plant+litter+compo+trees+branches&source=bl&ots=I0bPLIlW-K&sig=PzrFu1GDDV0UyXPW_p7ZKnjyvUs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=71QNT6CkBqz14QS6sqWeBg&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=plant%20litter%20compo%20trees%20branches&f=false

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1872203209000481

[Ludi]

Ludi (or anyone else), do you know how deeply they mulched in Jordan when they created Permaculture there?

In the video, Geoff says they mulched almost half a meter deep!

[Pakanohida]

In the video, Geoff says they mulched almost half a meter deep!

That makes sense to me.

1.5 feet of mulch in a desert would give a lot of micro areas for the water. I don't know how many of you reading this have experienced a high desert lava field w/ lava tubes. In Northern CA there is Lava Beds National Park. Many lava tubes there, gets well over 100f there too. The great thing though is go 5' underground and it is near freezing, complete with ice in summer.

Imagine, lava tubes as refrigerators... no electricity needed.

Anyway, I digress... I can totally see that much mulch being effective. Heck, toss more on! All it is going to do is turn into rich organic matter top soil which retains water like a sponge and the air pockets help bring water up via the capillary actions of water.

[mischief]

hmm, maybe I've abit stingy on the mulch.
I dont think I'd need that much, it does make sense for a really hot climate though.
Been thinking about offering my place as a drop off point to a contractor who does hedges as well as lawns.

[Ludi]

We just got a room-sized pile of chipper debris dumped on our place by a tree service who trimmed under the electric cooperative lines. It's moving the stuff down to the gardens that will be the hard part.....

[eco4560]

See if you can borrow Hard Working Hippy's chooks....

[rod champion]

Tell me about it Ludi... I did it one wheel barrow at a time. It is work that is for sure. A tractor with a bucket would do it tho.
Too bad they can't drive those trucks right to your garden, isn't it?

[Pakanohida]

I do it with a wheel barrow one at a time as well, or carrying 2 - 5 gallon buckets. I prefer it over a skidsteer, tractor or truck. Slowing down this much allows me to see more of what is going on outside and notice quickly any problems.

[S.O.P]

Feet also cause a lot less compaction.

[bazman]

When I first started my food forest I added 10 truck and dog loads of woody mulch over 1/2 acre and I keep adding as much as I can get, this also goes onto my vegi gardens but I also add a chunky grass mulch, weed and lawn mulch, compost, Biochar =), green manures, rock dust, liquid composts, vermicast and I chop and drop legumes all the time. I use legume ground covers, food crop ground covers and anything I can get my hands on in bulk which is chemical free. All my garden beds and path edging is medium to large wooden logs which slowly break down. I remember reading somewhere tree's prefer a fungal covering which comes from woody mulch and vegi gardens prefer a bacterial covering. I have strange looking fungal out brakes all around the food forest but not very often in my vegi garden beds.

We had a pretty wet season last year and much of my mulch was broken down extremely quickly, even hardwood chips and I had issues keeping a good covering over my soil. Thanks to a good mate of mine I have a good clean source of wood mulch.

I like to think that a variety of inputs creates a better growing environment and mulch is just one of them.

[Finchj]

Rod,

We are in NC too. Winston-Salem area.

We've got a suburban lot, so the topsoil was stripped when the house was built. My parents had it maintained as a lawn, but nothing too crazy (besides the annual weed+feed). Needless to say, the clay was unworkable. The trees we have in our back yard were growing, but suffered from the compacted and abused soil.

Since NC does free soil testing, we sent in our samples. We had- almost literally- no phosphorus in our soil. I'm talking a reading of 6, where 25+ is considered good. Our pH was also acidic- as expected.

So, mostly by myself, I double dug our garden. Once a section was completed, I turned in lime and an organic 10-7-7 fertilizer. We then cut leaf mold compost from our town with a soil conditioner laden with mico organisms and layered that on top of our newly loosened soil. That layer was probably ~2", since we had over 1000 sq ft to cover. On top of our compost layer, we put about 2" of wood chips from the city. I felt this was the best solution for immediately raising fertility and it would give us a great base on which to start building our own organic matter. Our soils were so poor that without doing this work, we wouldn't have been able to grow much of anything. We didn't sheet mulch because I stripped off the grass. A fair amount of Bermuda grass survived and, combined with morning glories that came in the mulch, were our largest issues.

Our garden grew reasonably this past year, given that it was the first year. We just got this years soil samples back. Our pH is now right around 6.5 for all the garden beds we limed, our P levels are ~30, and our cation exchange ratio doubled from ~4 to 9 (25 is our long term goal). Needless to say, our one time major soil additions worked.

Were those permie solutions? Well, I guess that depends on how you look at it. But we will not be doing this again to any of our property. I think a one time addition of outside fertility is a fair thing to do. Adding wood mulch works. If you observe a nitrogen deficiency, you can always use diluted urine. Or, better yet, make sure you sow legumes with your garden veges. Most of our garden is now covered in legumes, interplanted with some soil building winter crops.

If you want to see any pictures, click the link in my signature.

Edit- We also made sure to inoculate our plants with endomycorrhizal fungi, as appropriate. If your soils are highly degraded, I highly recommend this step. A 1.5lb jar of inoculant from Bio Organics costs ~$50, but you'll get over 1,000 small uses which should be enough to get things moving.

Also, where are you in NC? If you don't mind me asking!

[TheDirtSurgeon]

Feet also cause a lot less compaction.


Not necessarily... some compact track loaders put less pressure on the ground than your feet. 8)

[mathuranatha]

When I first started my food forest I added 10 truck and dog loads of woody mulch over 1/2 acre and I keep adding as much as I can get, this also goes onto my vegi gardens but I also add a chunky grass mulch, weed and lawn mulch, compost, Biochar =), green manures, rock dust, liquid composts, vermicast and I chop and drop legumes all the time. I use legume ground covers, food crop ground covers and anything I can get my hands on in bulk which is chemical free. All my garden beds and path edging is medium to large wooden logs which slowly break down. I remember reading somewhere tree's prefer a fungal covering which comes from woody mulch and vegi gardens prefer a bacterial covering. I have strange looking fungal out brakes all around the food forest but not very often in my vegi garden beds.

G,day , in the sub tropics and tropics wood and wood chips just breakdown and disappear so much faster than temperate areas it doesnt seem practical and is far too labour intensive . I used to use heaps of logs , branches and wood chips for a decade or so and still use some , but mostly now i turn it into biochar [charcoal] first , as it doesnt breakdown for thousands of years . Seems to work really really well and doesnt just oxidize back into co2 like wood does . Seems biochar [google it] is from the ancient civilizations 1000s of years ago and is starting to take over from the the more recent and very labor intensive organic type agriculture .

We are in nth NSW and here biochar is becoming very popular . Much less work than constantly adding tons of organic matter every year just to watch it disappear in no time . good luck - Mat --

We had a pretty wet season last year and much of my mulch was broken down extremely quickly, even hardwood chips and I had issues keeping a good covering over my soil. Thanks to a good mate of mine I have a good clean source of wood mulch.

I like to think that a variety of inputs creates a better growing environment and mulch is just one of them.

We had a pretty wet season last year and much of my mulch was broken down extremely quickly, even hardwood chips and I had issues keeping a good covering over my soil. Thanks to a good mate of mine I have a good clean source of wood mulch.

I like to think that a variety of inputs creates a better growing environment and mulch is just one of them.[/QUOTE]

[rod champion]

finchj.. I am between Kings Mtn. and Shelby NC. .
Thank you for the valuable information.
Rod

[Ludi]

We are in nth NSW and here biochar is becoming very popular . Much less work than constantly adding tons of organic matter every year just to watch it disappear in no time .

Is the biochar placed on the soil surface as mulch?

[eco4560]

Since NC does free soil testing, we sent in our samples.

I know we have kicked the idea of soil testing around on the board before (perhaps it is more accurate to say that we beat it to death...) but I have some questions.

Do one time soil amendments work for ever? Or will the phosphorus leach out of the soil, or get complexed with something so that it isn't biologically active and in a few years you'll be back at square one?

How often should you test soil - even just a simple test like pH?

How long after applying remedial action do you test again to see if you have over or under corrected?

I ask because I'm contemplating getting a soil test done. I know that there's no point in asking the question 'what is in my soil' if I'm not prepared to act on that information or can't afford to do so. After 3 years of chooks working my beds and composting, the soil has improved and some things do much better than they did but I still have big fungal issues. Which I've been told is quite probably a soil issue.

[Finchj]

Oh, by no means will the soil amendments last forever! The fertilizer we used was mostly organic matter based, although there was some super phosphate :(. We are focusing on having as many dynamic accumulators as possible these first few years, with comfrey/horsetail/dandelion/stinging nettle "nets" in key water-movement locations. While we won't catch all the nutrients, I think that by keeping a strong ground cover of clover and vetch (both P accumulators) combined with the "stronger" dynamic accumulators listed, we should do a decent job of it this season. Most of those plants actually stay green all winter here (although this has been unusually mild, so maybe not in the future), so some netting action should be happening as we speak.

Like I said before, we have also been inoculating with mycorrhizal fungi like crazy in hopes that we'll get a good network started. To support soil biology we are trying to maintain growing plants throughout the winter as well as a good 3-4"+ mulch layer that includes a small layer of compost. If we can create the conditions for happy soil organisms, we should see a decent retention of nutrients.

The lime will hopefully last a good while. Increasing organic matter should buffer our pH over the long haul. I think it will inevitably decline, but as we are only in our second year we will have to wait and see just how quickly that falls.

As far as how often you should test... NC tells us it should be done every three years, that changes do not occur that often. Of course we have done two consecutive years: the first told us what we were dealing with, and the second showed us the results of our first amendments. Whether we send in samples again next year is really up to us. Even though we used a clean stainless steel digging tool and thoroughly mixed about a dozen lots per sample, I still want my parents to get a true soil core tool for future sampling. Just in case our tool was messing with the readings.

I'm no expert though. Here is a link to publications (http://www.ncagr.gov/agronomi/pubs.htm) from our state's agronomic services. I would take some of what they have to say with a grain of salt. One of their publications said that "organic matter will increase soil acidity." While I know that some types of OM will, I was under the impression that the pH of organic matter varies- some might be alkaline.

We are glad that the samples are still tested for free. Obviously people can and do garden, even farm, successfully without ever having one done. We just think that since the service is offered we might as well take full advantage.

[TheDirtSurgeon]

No, that's true, amendments don't necessarily last long.

But I'm given to understand that once the nutrients are in balance, per Albrecht (something I've read much of in Acres USA magazine) they'll pretty much stay there as long as you keep adding humus, and don't do anything drastic.

This is a lesson to be learned from nature itself. Look at any natural system that has been untouched by humans for a century or more. It's in balance, and won't go out. It needs no amendments.

That is why, in my opinion, compost is the fix-all. It just takes longer... compost won't remedy a low calcium situation so fast as an application of lime. It all works together.

But as in "Back to Eden," the consistent application of organic cover, and the proper decay conditions, results in balanced soil after sufficient time.

[Pakanohida]

No, that's true, amendments don't necessarily last long.

But I'm given to understand that once the nutrients are in balance, per Albrecht (something I've read much of in Acres USA magazine) they'll pretty much stay there as long as you keep adding humus, and don't do anything drastic.

This is a lesson to be learned from nature itself. Look at any natural system that has been untouched by humans for a century or more. It's in balance, and won't go out. It needs no amendments.

That is why, in my opinion, compost is the fix-all. It just takes longer... compost won't remedy a low calcium situation so fast as an application of lime. It all works together.

But as in "Back to Eden," the consistent application of organic cover, and the proper decay conditions, results in balanced soil after sufficient time.

I am in agreement with my Surgeon Colleague.

When I started learning about the massive inputs of organic matter in the US prior to European colonization in "Edible Forest Gardens Vol1" I was utterly dumbfounded by the sheer amount of waste animals would drop into a forest. Picture if you will a flock of pigeons what is so thick it blots out the sun, then they all roost for an hour or so evacuating their bowels to the forest floor. Audobun found as much as 3" of bird waste dropped in a single sitting by the pigeons.

Think about that a moment... so much life it obscures the vision of the sun, then suddenly 3" of white poop all over a forest floor. That signals to me that organic matter can be handled by a healthy forest in very large amounts. However the area needs to be healthy, and that is pretty rare on Earth now.

[Finchj]

The EFG books are full of amazing information aren't they? I use the second volume constantly and have started rereading the first, although I'm interrupted at the moment with "Teaming with Microbes." Which is good, but I'm actually surprised at how much was covered in my other materials (that and some of their recommendations I cringe at, like replacing your soil!). Anyway...

I too agree with the Dirt Surgeon. One reason we did use fertilizer was the speed. Our P levels were so low that they are in danger of falling off the chart. We thought the benefits out weighed the costs at that point. However, we do have a considerable amount of our site left that has not been amended with either lime or fertilizer. We will be seeding those with a laundry list of native nitrogen fixers and some more dynamic accumulators. Rod, if you want to see a list of what we ordered to get an idea as to what is supposed to thrive here, you can click this link (http://finchj9b.tumblr.com/post/16736611314).

I also decided to watch the Back to Eden film. I thought it was good, although I was a little dismayed that he called his gardening style permaculture. I didn't see any interplanting, there was an obsession with "weeds"... There didn't seem to be any design going on. Just the application of wood chips. Although he was recycling his organic matter, he was still bringing in fertility without any discussion of cover cropping or the use of other green manure type plants.

I guess I was just surprised that he used the word permaculture. Was it organic? Yes; are his results impressive and worth sharing? Yes! But permaculture is more than laying down wood chips and disavowing biocides. If I were wealthy enough, I'd sponsor him to take a PDC and see just how much more productive he could make his land!

[Pakanohida]

I also decided to watch the Back to Eden film. I thought it was good, although I was a little dismayed that he called his gardening style permaculture. I didn't see any interplanting, there was an obsession with "weeds"... There didn't seem to be any design going on. Just the application of wood chips. Although he was recycling his organic matter, he was still bringing in fertility without any discussion of cover cropping or the use of other green manure type plants.

I guess I was just surprised that he used the word permaculture. Was it organic? Yes; are his results impressive and worth sharing? Yes! But permaculture is more than laying down wood chips and disavowing biocides. If I were wealthy enough, I'd sponsor him to take a PDC and see just how much more productive he could make his land!

There is a lot of that going on though sadly. Not just by farmers / gardeners but a whole slew of people out there calling stuff Permaculture. I don't feel qualified to teach yet, still working on my PDC and all, as a result I send people to YouTube to search, "Permaculture" when I get tongue tied. I need to start making business cards that give directions to PRI's main webpage. I will not send people to anywhere else. :)

[TheDirtSurgeon]

I was a bit put off by the film as well... the one guy acting like "The Lord" was "putting this out there now." Say what? Organic matter decays into soil with help from fungi, bacteria, critters, etc.; and this is a new concept requiring divine revelation? I certainly applaud them for spreading the message of organic agriculture to their target audience, however. You do have to reach people in their own lexicon, their own semantics.

And agreed; not anywhere near permaculture. Mulch and chemical-free are kiddie stuff.