The future

[grease]

With the way the planet is heading, what with the ever increasing divide between rich and poor, global warming, inept governments, terrorism, and the use of roundup (glyphosate), Does anyone hold any hope for the future or are we truly living in a fools paradise?

[ejanea]

No, we're not living in a fool's paradise.
I have spent many years thinking about this, and I truly believe that one can only do so much, but the little patch that I have and care for is good and really makes a difference.

I even had a neighbour comment on how beautiful my place was even though I don't defoliate (glyphosate) regularly.
Perhaps I'm beginning to have an effect beyond the gate!

[grease]

Ejanea I'm encouraged to hear that you have spent many years thinking about this. It is true that one can only do what one can.The members of this chat site will be happy to hear that you don't defoliate(glyphosate) regularly. So there is hope?

[Richard on Maui]

no, there's no hope. we're all doomed!
:roll:
not really. the sun came up this morning and there's butterflies and what not.
as Kurt Vonnegut says, "If this ain't nice, I don't know what is.". :wink:

[SueinWA]

Not everyone has their head buried in a bucket of sand. Many, but not all. Do what you can for your little corner, and maybe you'll bring a few in with you.

Sue

[frosty]

I am all for caring for our little corner but I still think we are all doomed

we cant get away from air pollution ....... or climate change .......

you may not "defoliate" but if neighbours do ( or anyone within about 10km )you are getting it

and there are much worse things than glyphosate ........ things like underslab termite treatment with chlorpyrifos :evil: it not much use caring for your little corner of you have poisoned it ( and the groundwater and air for km arround ) with a termiticide :evil:

GE contamination will eventually pollute even our Organic food supplies

and just to cap it off the whole of australia is being poisoned by US military training using depleted uranium

http://www.bsharp.net.au

frosty

[HoneydaleFarm]

For all the doom and gloom out there, where are all the good news stories...what you never here about is all the people doing amazing things, the deserts in Ethipoia that have been turned back into productive lands that now feed other areas...the farming co-operatives in areas where people ysed to staarve that now feed whole villages and still have surplus to sell...all the number of National parks and reserves that have been increased, the schools who have included revegetations as part of their curriculum, the number of organic products that you now see in main stream, and the increasing number of people that now come to this forum on a regular basis...

I refuse to lay down and listen to people talk about how its all too late and why should we bother...I will not walk past someone in need and not offer to help...I will not give up that there are people who can be helped to live their lives a bit cleaner and greener...and if you are not going to try and make a difference by either being actively vocal and instigating change (even in small ways) then why are you here???

*Hopping off soap box now**

[Tezza]

For Sale Hangmans Noose ,,Unused, Backwards firing gun,Still in box.
Poison..Free to bad home....


No I dont get too depressed any more only on days that end with an Y..


No i dont care if know one listens anymore,I know im right,I may die of heart attack today i may live another 30 years who knows?
What i do know is.....If the shit ever hits the fan,at least ill be ready,im nearly self sufficient in food,...Some say the end will be by a comet,some the sun going out,some say world war 111,now where wondering if something that needs a microscope to see will kill us.....

Im not a religious person,well not of an orthadox one anyways....
Being a man of the world whos survived 51 years i think i know a bit...
Life there for us to take care of,if we choose to ignore the signs,well thats our fault,if the sign says turn left to be safe and we go right just because we can,well so be it.who cares its free will.

I beleive theres a very fine line between surviving and dying,So fine that it can be over in a flash/instant.

I feel like a modern day Nohah,building my ark(house and food forrest)
people think im a bit nuts(not like them clearheaded persons huh).
Whilst doing my life Im preparing myself for the inevitable DEATH,no one gets away with it at all even bush.blair and go go johny,wont escape
Why dont humans disscuss deth and dying more.why do we wait untill someone we love gets ill or dies before we do anything,why are we so unprepared,why do we take so long to deal with loved ones dying...
why do we die?Doctors say we can live to 120.not on this planet matey.
Doctors say heywe can give you a life span of up to 80,90,100..yeah well "who wants to live forever anyway"I dont wanna die but ill be glad in away,just so i dont have to see nd put up with the daily bullEFFING sh**
via the media.This once great country is Going rapidly down the gurgler,thanks to the minority of people who dont give a flying EFF about anyone,not even them selves.Why would johnny aggravate certain peoples who my just decide to kill him instead of poor buggers at a train station,probly cause he stupid to think that they may blow his house up.
Or the other so called elected representatives in parliment Guy fawkes must o been the first terrorist i heard of.
Its because they treat us with contempt.If we do their bidding were just as bad as them......Hey corny ,would you shoot Aussies in your new town because some little wanker tells you too.How far will we all go in supporting these people.........

Turn off Your Tvs Turn off your radios,Dont go to work for that credit loan company,Stop working for that armaments factory,Stop being the cleaners at parl house,stop bying newspapers,stop voting,for yourself.vote for the planet.not for a tax cut thatl cost your children a decent education,or a hospital thats never got any spare beds unless your in private health.

Why dont we all stay home for the day,and see then how the masters carry on....If 2 polititions make speaches,its called debating.So does that mean that when there all speaking together that its Massdebating?

Lets all go on strike untill we all get better working conditions.....

Tezza

[forest]

How can you not have hope? You might as well jump if you don't.

I too have thought about this and I made a conscious decision to live well and simply on my acre. I don't spray anything, I garden organically and I create a safe haven for my family, friends and any stray animals reptiles or birds that happen to wander past.

I have no control over anyone or anything else, but here, here I know that the sun always shines.

[grease]

I didn't say I don't have hope for the future, Life is to good to give up easily (people do drink roundup though to try to escape this mortal coil, misguided fools). We all I think, do the best we can in our own space, our own acreage. But what of the outside world? that vast bit that we can't control and which ultimately dictates how we live?

[earthbound]

You know, I started to write some philosophical banter here about the effects of the outside world, but it really boils down to one simple thing...

Be the change you want to see in the world - Mahatma Gandhi.

(thanks for that Franceyne)

Don't worry about shit ya can't change, just do good stuff yourself..

Gees he was a great bloke..... :D :D :D

[grease]

Mahatma Gandhi acheived a lot. He put the wind up the British and achieved independence for his country of birth through a lot of personal sacrifice earlier than it would of happened(He acquired his degree in law in England so he new his adversary 1st hand[he wasn't poor]). Apparently he worried about the shit that he couldn't change to the extent that he got the ball rolling then he got shot. If he didn't worry about the 'shit he couldn't change' then we wouldn't have heard about him.
I feel relatively comfortable in my backyard doing'good stuff', but I wonder about the outside world.

[Tezza]

If everybody thought they couldnt change,because "i dont give a shit"
because"I cant change shit"The berlin wall would still be there.Wed still be ruled over by The Romans.or the Egyptions,ghengis kahn,Napoleone.etc

To say "you give up cause you cant change shit" is a defeatist attitude. :(

Im sure me old mate joel,was answering after a hectic day of fish growing.and forgot all about his shitty things he couldnt change when he was INVENTING his Aquponic System...Funny how we forget the shit wich is no longer shit later on down the track :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Trouble for Mahatma was his own kind he was probly sold down the river by the very people he helping..Big buisness

He promoted Peacefull Protest didnt he......
Well i sen unpeacefull protest,look at what the government is doing now,
gee they could shoot you for arguing about roundup on a street corner.

We could all withdraw our money,(those with some anyway.)from the bank,that would shut em up,but ya better hurry cause soon as they realise
theyll close the banks down,

Tezza

[earthbound]

You have to be careful how you comprehend what people are saying Tezza... And yes I got your PM, but I'm always up for a debate. :D

And this is part of what I meant by my post.

To rant and rave, stamp feet and get very angry about an issue, doesn't change it in any way. If you can't change something, don't stress about it, don't get angry and upset, because it makes no difference.........!!!!!!!!!

In a similar vein as the 'everything should be free' issue, it's all very well for people to say things like that, yeah beautiful ideals, but you actually have to do what you believe rather than talk about it, start making things and giving them away. Start working for nothing, doing volunteer work... I've mailed off my package to a few shelters and orphanges in the US who inquired about them, for nothing... It cost me money to do it, and I get absolutely nothing out of it but it's a positive thing to do that hopefully makes a difference to people. Things that I wish others would do, the changes I want to see happening, people giving.

Now I could get upset about the fact that there are homeless kids and women who have been abused, and need shelters, but whats the point. I can't change what has happened to those people in a different country to me, but maybe I can help them now in a positive way.

Aggressive arguing of a particular point of view, generally accomplishes very little at the end of the day, apart from raising your blood pressure and causing stress.. :angry5:

When I worked on making aquaponic stuff it wasn't because I was angry, or shitty at anything, it was because I saw something great, that I thought everyone should do. My motivation doesn't come from anger... Come on man, I thought you were a sixties child, make love not war... :hippy2:

Peacefull protest and "being the change you want to see in the world" is far from defeatist, it's the essence of active positive change... :D :D :D

Joel

[~Tullymoor~]

Peacefull protest and "being the change you want to see in the world" is far from defeatist, it's the essence of active positive change...

Joel


If this were MY thread I would want it finished on that note.

Peace, love and pigeon pea pods ~Tully~

[Tezza]

Hey you missed the point too :lol: :lol:

I am A flower child, I am a peacenik,Didnt youSee my bits about non peacefull,,,,,Since when has taking money out the bank warlike,
or having an aussie icon and have a "sickie"warlike?

I agree about your working for free and giving stuff away,Lets all do itjust to prove it 8) 8) 8) 8) ...Go and read the for sale pages ok but give me a few mins im busy typing this up......

And I wasnt saying that you hated aquas either.where that one come from
:( :( ...

Tezza 8) 8)

[frosty]

I certainly didnt mean dont do anything :roll: Its just that deep down I realise that the majority will have their way and they are so stupid and brainwashed that we are doomed :lol:

but that doesnt stop me from being a pretty dedicated peace and environmental activist :lol: in fact if I suddenly disappear now with the new laws you know "they" got me probably for sedition because I am buggered if I am going to support the troops killing civilians in country's where we shouldnt be or stop criticising the govt or stop protesting against the yanks coming here to pollute our country instead of their own :evil:

I know I wont change it alone but if everyone got together people power is THE super power

and in fact west aussies if it wasnt for our little group they would now be dredging Cokburn Sound to base US nuclear aircraft carriers here

and we are also working very hard to be self sufficient ....... if the big economic colapse comes before armageddon we will be ready and will be able to watch that stupid majority mentioned above starve in their macmansions :lol: :lol:

frosty

[forest]

"grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

[psychochook]

In reply I would like to quote from my old Venturer leader, a man called Lindsay Knights. Lindsay would tell this story when he was conducting Venturer leader training courses.

The morning after a heavy storm a man went down to the beach to see if anything interesting had been washed up. When he got down to the beach he noticed that thousands of starfish had all been washed up onto the sand and they were all lying there dying.

He went for a walk along the beach to see if there was anything else, and in the distance he noticed a small boy constantly bending over and standing up again. As the man got closer he noticed that what the boy was doing was picking up starfish and throwing them back into the water.

The man went up to the boy and said to him, "tell me lad, there are many thousands of starfish on the beach dying, you are only going to be able to save a few. Why bother? Do you honestly think you are going to make a difference?"

The boy looked at the man, bent over, picked up a starfish and held it up to the mans eyes and simply said "To this starfish, I have made a difference!" and threw it into the water.

This is my philosophy! This is what I believe in. Why bother? Because I am making a difference. And if I can make a difference to 5 people, and they in turn make a difference to 5 people who all make a difference to 5 people etc then it will ultimately have an effect.

When people ask me why I bother, I just tell them that I am looking for my starfishes. Usually they look at me funny and back away slowly, but I can live with that.

As my wife says, "it is better to light one candle than to stand there cursing the darkness"

[Tezza]

Well Said Psychochook...

I agree totally
People who give up easy, then use subtle slogans,to cover their asses.


Well.............I gues you know what I mean,

Tezza

[~Tullymoor~]

People who give up easy, then use subtle slogans,to cover their asses.


Well.............I gues you know what I mean,





Nope, I don't know what you mean....what DO you mean?? :? :? :?
What subtle slogans? Please explain??

[Steve J.]

Nature by design is in a constant state of decomposition; the human race being part of nature is ultimately self-destructive, I very much feel there is nothing much we can do about it as it is an inherit vice of nature. Conservation, whether of society or nature (if you must separate the two), is essentially about the rate and degree of deterioration, these are the only two variables but the outcome is a given. If it makes you feel better, go down screaming (or quietly resisting).

Steve

[Tezza]

8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Star

[earthbound]

Yes, please explain what you meant Tezza.

[~Tullymoor~]

And you say that the battle is over
And you say that the war is all done
Go tell it to those
With the wind in their nose
Who run from the sound of the gun

And write it on the sides
Of the great whaling ships
Or on ice floes where conscience is tossed
With the wind in their eyes
It is they who must die
And it’s we who must measure the loss

And you say that the battle is over
And finally the world is at peace
You mean no one is dying
And mothers don’t weep
Or it’s not in the papers at least

There are those who would deal
In the darkness of life
There are those who would tear down the sun
And most men are ruthless
But some will still weep
When the gifts we were given are gone

Now the blame cannot fall
On the heads of a few
It’s become such a part of the race
It’s eternally tragic
That that which is magic
Be killed at the end of the glorious chase

From young seals to great whales
From waters to wood
They will fall just like weeds in the wind
With fur coats and perfumes
And trophies on walls
What a hell of a race to call men

And you say that the battle is over
And you say that the war is all done
Go tell it to those
With the wind in their nose
Who run from the sound of the gun

And write it on the sides
Of the great whaling ships
Or on ice floes where conscience is tossed
With the wind in their eyes
It is they who must die
And it’s we who must measure the loss
With the wind in their eyes
It is they who must die
And it’s we who must measure the cost

Words and music by david mallett
Sung by John Denver.
Subitted by ~Tullymoor~

[Tamandco]

Nature by design is in a constant state of decomposition; the human race being part of nature is ultimately self-destructive, I very much feel there is nothing much we can do about it as it is an inherit vice of nature. Conservation, whether of society or nature (if you must separate the two), is essentially about the rate and degree of deterioration, these are the only two variables but the outcome is a given. If it makes you feel better, go down screaming (or quietly resisting).

Steve

I don't know about all this depressing talk. I'm having a pretty good time here on Earth.

I liked the starfish story. How very appropriate.

Sooooooo the next time anyone thinks to question or criticise me for acting in a not quite "thingy about organic/free range" way, just think about the few starfish that I have managed to throw back into the ocean, and the parable that you seem to have embraced so completely.

Tam

[barely run]

I'm with Joel :) :D
Do what you can... influence what you can...and don't sweat the small stuff....cause it's all small stuff Quote from that guy
and a better one and more serious is a quote from The Dali Lama..."I truely believe that individuals can make a differance in society"
Namaste...roughly translates as "I recognise the divine within you"
Cathy

[sab]

Back in the 70s I was totally depressed about the way the world was. I suppose you could say I was a disillusioned hippie. I saw no hope for the world or me - I was heading for (another) breakdown. I was a mess. I had undiagnosed VD so my problems were real.

I got filled with the Holy Spirit and everything changed. Not in the world but within. I felt great - I had energy again, my mind was clear. I had hope again. 3 years later I got married. The VD was diagnosed 4 years after that when I was pregnant with my 2nd child. I have 2 gifted kids. My first daughter is musically gifted. The sort that can hear a tune and play it. I mention that because doctors expected her to be brain-damaged or deaf. My youngest is a straight A student. Both learned to read at 2. (Thanks Glenn Doman!)

I still think we need to take care of the earth. We don't have a right to abuse it. Permaculture makes more sense than any other agricultural system, but like others have mentioned on this forum what do you do when your neighbours use arial sprays or the politicians and leaders bring us to the brink of war. The next one's going to be a doozy.

[~Tullymoor~]

I agree totally
People who give up easy, then use subtle slogans,to cover their asses.

Well.............I gues you know what I mean,

Tezza


What do you mean by this, Starfish Helper?

[Steve J.]

Tam,

I love the life we live also and strive to make the best of all I have. Tam this is a very heavy topic and I find it hard to thrash out in the confines of a quickly typed paragraph…… I am really genuinely sorry if you find my thoughts depressing as they are in no way meant to come across as defeatist / fatalistic. I believe that there is irational fear borne from a belief in Armageddon- that one day the world will change because it must!! perhaps even in our lifetime a great devastation that will change the way we live? We will see, but I tend to think such biblical or monumental change is unlikely. I guess my belief is that science shows that decomposition is a natural part of nature’s cyclic renewal of itself, I think learning to accept and embrace the 'deterioration aspect' of the big picture life-cycle is actually quite positive and healthy because it juxtaposes a belief in renewal. I agree that many drops make an ocean, a journey starts and ends with a single step, we all have a part to play…. but in the great scheme of things, you and I are really insignificant as the course of things is pretty much pre determined , we are part of nature and nature is destructive…but nature also evolves and renews.

Steve

[grease]

So I gather the general consensus is we can influence things in our own backyard . The global picture is a bit different. The world is becoming more urbanised to the detriment of good arable land. By 2015 Mumbai is expected to have 22.6 million inhabitants,Delhi 20.9 million.(World urbanisation prospects-the 2003 revision UN division of economic and social affairs, population division) What would Gandhi do? Poverty doesn't help the equasion much. All us affluent people discussing what breed of animal we are using in our 'systems' or plants we are growing is a luxury not experienced by the 75% of the worlds population that doesn't have direct access to a phone (SMH 16/6/2005), let alone broadband. Over half the worlds population are happy with whatever animal or plant that they can procure to eat, it doesn't have to have a pedigree. The thing that I see is that one day we will be like those currently eaking out an existence. I'm lucky because by that time I'll be old and ready? to exit this mortal coil. My young teenage children will inherit all our 1st world sins.

[SueinWA]

"What would Gandhi do?"

Gandhi's people were starving when he was there, too.

Sue

[Richard on Maui]

When I was in India I saw whole villages relocated (dislocated?) to these temporary camps with a-frame tents made out of black plastic, so that they could dig the trenches along the side of the road to put in optic fibre cables for telephone and internet. Apparently they could make more money doing this than they would if they had stayed home and tended their ancestral fields. Pretty wild. But in a sense, the social injustice of that scenario saved a whole lot of diesel fuel and greenhouse emmissions probably.
A friend we made there made the observation that in spite of or perhaps because of all the backwardness of India and its poverty, and its unsanitary practises of washing floors with cow urine etc, that it still has the fastest growing population in the world. I think that India is supposed to eclipse China in terms of population sooner or later.
I was expecting to see ecosystems in collapse in India, on account of the vast amounts of people... but I was pretty amazed at the amount of bird and mammal life we saw. We cycled through a lot of the country between Bombay and Madras, and things could have been a lot worse. Relative to south east asia it was like a wildlife park!
I think there is a lot of hope. Nature is amazingly resilient and recuperative. People are waking up to a sense of "deep ecology" more and more, and Permaculture and self reliance is a part of that, and I believe it is contagious. After a lifetime of consumerist, throwaway habits my parents have started to grow a vegetable garden, something I would have thought inconcievable a few years ago. The more of us that start demonstrating the benefits of the good life, the more exponentially we'll start to get things right.

[SueinWA]

I try to think of permaculture as a beneficial disease. We are infected with it, and try to infect as many others as we can. :lol: And then they infect even more people.

You people in Australia are lucky. You have a few TV programs that talk about farming and permaculture and things that are beneficial to the land and water. The best we've got is a few cutsie-poo gardening shows. No one in television seems to even KNOW we've got problems with our land, air, water, etc. America the Beautiful: drowning in human waste, manure lagoons, chemical fertilitzers, pesticides and herbicides. Sigh.

Sue

Far out...this discussion has got so complex...I've forgotten the question! :lol:

That advertising you see over there Sue, of our pristine beaches and clear seas, lush rainforests and glowing deserts...mmm. You can still find em if you look, I guess. But you do have to go looking.

I have a pretty unusual pic of some roos on the sand at our nearest beach, but am not game to post it, or it might get snavelled up by a marketing company and folks will come expecting to see roos on our beaches...It's all a bit like that...

[grease]

SueinWa- There's just more poor and starving in India now than in Gandhi's time.So he accomplished? Rainbow farmer- I have faith in the next generation, I have faith that we share with them all we can, our pollution, our ineptitude in dealing with it and our lack of ( apart from the small majority that are doing something about it) action. The original question to this complex discussion rainbow ended with 'are we living in a fools paradise'? It's not a great thing to contemplate but....what of the future?

[Richard on Maui]

Well, actually Grease... yes there are a lot more poor and starving people in India now than there was in Ghandi's day, but there is also now an educated middle class that is bigger than the entire population of the USA...
In Ghandi's day India was a colony of the British Empire and was exploited about as hard as it could be. He more or less led his people to a peaceful independence. (Of course, it got pretty ugly almost immediately thereafter, but he wasn't around anymore either was he?)
I would contend that Ghandi achieved an awful lot. If nothing else, in showing the world the potential for nonviolence to be effective. :D

[grease]

Gandhi did acheive a lot. and the world learnt ...... what from him? There apparently is an educated middle class in India that is bigger than the population of consumerism central- America. This makes me feel comfortable How?

[devinp]

you know....

everytime I turn on the news, walk past a factory, see another development destroying the natural landscape it makes me pretty angry.

But in the end it just drives me to try harder to make a differance in whatever small or maybe even big way I can....

What good did Gandhi do? A great inspiration to a lot of people for one thing....

And maybe we'll get a whole lotta mahatma's coming out of those middle classes...

Peace,
Devin.