The Sunday Report

[~Tullymoor~]

Well, today was hot...32 apparently...felt like 92 in the sun :D

Today I got my cherry tomato seedlings into the no-dig beds I made with the bamboo trellis near The Folly. Since I sowed about 35 million seeds into pots thinking they wouldn't all sprout and they DID, I also shoved some in the flower beds and also along the chook pen fence. I still have ten jam-packed pots of them to find homes for :shock:
I also planted some comfrey around the edges in an attempt to try to halt the progress of the couch/buffalo grass runners.
In went some zucchini seedlings and also some seeds...transplanted a nasturtium, love them winding their way through stuff and up fences :D
I planted out some home-grown Taga seedlings also along chookpen fence and hope they grow quickly or the chooks are gonna fry without any shade.
Sowed, into pots, 10 colour tomatos and also some more mixed pick and come again lettuces.
We got some netting on our post and rail fences surrounding the vege garden in an attempt to keep chooks out.
Then this evening (that was absolutely magnaborious by the way) we planted out some natives (erimophalla (sp), woolly bush, melaleuka, and something with no tag that looks like a spinning gum) my Mum bought me when she came down in Sept... :shock: they were getting a bit unhappy in their pots.
Oh and sowed some Swamp Foxtail grasses from seed I saved from our old place...keep fingers crossed on that one...apparently they do better from root divisions...I LOVE em and hope they take.

So, that's what I've been up to. Who's next with their Sunday report???

[~Tullymoor~]

Crikies, where IS everone????
It'll be Monday soon :?

[barely run]

Bit late on the Sunday report BUT had my husband home and all to myself...so out came the whip...I mean working gloves...lol
We or rather he, fenced in the herb garden as I keep losing my asparagus to the dogs and hares. I was thinking star pickets and wire...no way...lovely cemented posts...and chicken wire...looks great.
Mulched the next chook tractor cirlcle ready for the tomatoes..and topped up the potatoes...got 3 tyres high. Split the chooks into 2 groups to try and pick out the egg eaters but no luck so far :? and got our spa pool (home made) really a stock water trough..up and running. When I can afford a real spa I'll turn it into a aquaculture thingy.
Have had al ovely productive few days :lol:
Cathy

[Tezza]

Flat out here at our place, visiters,before we were dressed,out visiting,then back,check on the chicks,maggos,and SilkWorms.Then flat out typing this message, oh yea had to watch an combined dvd of acdc with a disc each for
Bons songs and other for Brians songs...Funny watching 70s glam rock acdc
on old countdown show clips,ya remember Bon in Drag...Later after wifey goes bed ill be watching the brian version,hope fully the sound quality will be better then the 70s gear 8)
if i last till midnight ill visit via the net my Soccer Team Manchester United
vs some other mob we hate :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: .

Nite Nite all

Tezza

zzzzzz

[Richard on Maui]

Its still only 7:30am on Sunday here in the north Pacific. I just finished my first cup of coffee and turned this thing on to find out what time it is. The clouds obscure the sun until about 11am this time of year most days, making it hard to tell that way, and all our other clocks are dead.
But, today the Mrs is going to the Maui Nui Botanical Gardens arbor day free tree giveaway, and I am staying home and using some recycled wood to build a shed.

[HoneydaleFarm]

Hey Tully,

We had one of the best Sundays (weather wise) we have had for ages, so took advantage of the fact and had an impromptu brunch at out place with friends. Got some friends over with their little ones and the inlaws...and the in proverbial words of Donkey from Shrek..."WE made WAFFLES!!"

Then spent the rest of the day planting all the vege seeds I had germinated (Corn, squash, zuchinni,lettuces, silverbeet, beetroot, radishes,peas, beans, tomoatoes, capsisums,chillis etc etc etc)...and thinking how some one else will get to benefit from the herb and vege garden I have built....bittersweet really. Maybe the garden will turn someone into a vege grower!

Last night I also took advantage of a balmy Tassie night and my 3year old daughter and I (Hubby at work baking breads for the masses) sat outside and had salad and planned the new garden...still not sure how we are going to build the pen for that dragon she wants in there though :lol:

[Cornonthecob]

I slept!

[earthbound]

I got up late, drank lots of coffee and read papers..... Picked fluff from my navel then contemplated it for a while..... Then filmed some video bits of the new system I made and tried to edit it and up load it... Then a friend came round and I drank a bottle of red wine....... hic....


Man I didn't do anything permaculture like, I planted nothing...... :(

[christopher]

To start out, today I slept in.

Then I futzed around with the stone kitchen, and didn't lay a single stone.

I then made the awesome exertion of drinking some coffee.

I harvested some banana.

I ate some "golden plum" (spondia somthingorother.......)

I ate some quinoa (imported).

I looked at various areas of the land, especially in the area surrounding the student housing (MMRF area), where we have some corn, some cajanus, some cannavalia, as well as pineapple, vetiver grass, coconuts, cashew, peach palm, some other trees... We need to make some decisions....

Then I went and watched as Dawn transplanted some tomatos. I then harrassed her to take some of her transplant pan over to the MMRF area... where she planted some more.

I checked on line to see if anyone had posted....

Taking stock for today, I did just about nothing :?

It rained alot, too, which is nice. The ground is pretty dry for this time of the year, and a big deluge would be nice to help us through the impending dry season. Our corn and beans plants are at that critical stage, so this rain will get them a bit further along.....

Dr Joel, working on new video of your new aquaponics :wav: system is very worthy work! The seeds sown by your "non-permacultural" work today will grow into many other systems! Every bt of work you do in that direction is worthy earth repairing work!~

Whoever was complaining the other day about substance free postings and sharing minutia is just going to love this thread :lol: ! I hope his Sunday was as easy andd stress free as all of ours, too!

For just a bit more fluff, to add volume if not weight to this thread, I will mention that I am listening to Dread Zeppelin, a Reggae style band, (sort of) that covers Led Zeppeling songs, and the lead singer is an Elvis impersonator. Just my mix, and taste, in cleverness, humour and irreverence. I downloaded it on Limewire.....

I will say here, also, to keep Tullmoor from worrying, that I will, most likely, be off installing the balance of the solar system out at the cay this week, leaving tomorrow. I promise to check in when I get back :love7: .

[Richard on Maui]

Christopher, I LOVE your style. Admitting that you wander around, watch your wife working and issue her instructions, AND that you pinch music off the internet in one single post. You champ! I wish I had the courage to do both of the above. :lol:

[Franceyne]

Stealing art is bad....did you steal the music Christopher or was it a free to take download...? :shock:

Glenn had images of his art stolen once and made into postcards which were sold - it was not very nice to see these art works used in this manner without prior request or acknowledgement... :(

I have a little bee in my bonnet about stealing art... :x

My Sunday was cruizy too - planted a carob tree, another black mulberry, two chilean guavas and one pineapple guava and some herbs (pennyroyal, tansy, applemint & origano) while Glenn attacked an old concrete slab with the spud bar to break it all up and remove it (to use as land fill in an eroding dam wall).

:D
Fran.

[earthbound]

Your busted big time C........... :roll:

[Franceyne]

Would Christopher like it if someone jumped his fence and nicked a solar system that he had just worked on and was about to install somewhere?

Or if someone stole all your fishies Joel?

:lol:

[earthbound]

I understand perfectly Fran, hence the reason I'm not releasing my book in an electronic format...... :?

I'm waiting for the day when I find some of my stuff being used by someone else... I figure it's probably not a case of if, more when...

[Franceyne]

My apologies Joel,

It was those rolly eyes that got me going :wink:

It is a shame that people don't even think about electronic theft as stealing. We have friends that have offered to burn us cd's of music that we like, music that they have got from the internet - these same people get a little toey when we refuse the cd and tell them that we will buy the cd and support the band - these people also wonder why bands don't tour Australia - they don't have record sales to justify a tour because people are stealing the music instead of buying it - 'tis all very silly.

I hope you are always contacted if someone wants to quote from your work and that you are given the appropriate recognition.

Cheers,
Fran.

[earthbound]

hahahah..... :lol: I can see the context you may have taken my comment, with the rolly eyes and all...... They were aimed at C, 'he's in trouble again..... :roll:'

However, I probably shouldn't comment further on the subject, coz I aint perfect myself....... :oops:

[Franceyne]

What have you been stealing Joel? :lol:

[christopher]

:oops:

Um, regarding the work thing, um, see, uh, well, most days, um, well, not like this day, um, most days I, uh, work, see, ummmm, like a dog.... see? But, uh, today I was, ummm, working on, um, resting for tomorrow.

And, Richard, um, trust me on this, issuing instructions, orders, directions, fatwahs etc will only backfire. Dawn is a redhead, and while I hate sterotypes... um, trust me, that approach won't work.

.
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.
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I whined. (Come oooooo-on Daaaa-a-a-awn, puh-leeeeze? We NEED them over there......)

another :oops: , Franceyne, you are right. We have an intern, I mentioned Dread Zeppelin, she told me to go to this site, I did, downloaded the music, and in the harsh glare of your scathing observations (see me looking like a deer in the headlights?, uh, maybe a walabee or kangaroo for you..... ) I have to admit that I stole the music.

I could make some weak justifications, throw out some situational ethics, but you already cut to the bone, baring the sordid essence of how I got the music. Its bad. I won't do it again. I just checked at Amazon, and the albums are all still available.... so I couldn't use that weak excuse either.

See, I would never do that with, say, Dr Joels books or DVDs, but, without really thinking about it, somehow I managed to justify it in this.

File sharing sounds so much, well, nicer nicer than STEALING, but it is stealing.

I'm (was!) a bad boy....

Consider me reproached and a changed man.

I remain, improving daily, yours,

C

[earthbound]

Me....? Nothing................ :oops: :oops: Genuine backups of originals only.... :oops:

[christopher]

Um, yeah, like he said, me too!

(never agaiin, never again, never again...)

[Franceyne]

Your own originals boys...? I have another friend who makes copies if his purchased cd to use in his car cd player because it is a little too rough on the cds to use the originals. I think this is ok, its not stealing.

I am glad for you Christopher - that you are now conscious of the consequences of your actions...convenience is a trap that has the potential to ruin the world and everything that we hold dear in it.


:? :D

[christopher]

Yeah, Franceyne, thanks for making me see the light.... thanks a whole lot.... :( (Couldn't you have waited until I stole a real impressive collection? :lol: .)

I do own originals of some of Dread Zeppelins music, two albums, but can't find them.... but some of what I downloaded I don't own.

Anyway, I'm a changed man.....

C

[earthbound]

Ummm, I have to go now.... Think I hear someone calling me...... :lol: :lol:

[Tezza]

Some bad piratey people in here arnt there ,,How dare they copy music..

I never copy songs out for my self........its too hard i get the computer to do it for me.... :lol:

I only copy to Learn the songs for my guitar,plus the occasional copy for my own use.... i dont burn for others at all...

I fore see in the future that song writers will be pleased that people copy there music,or the playing style,they are after all entertainers,

Ive heard tht some bands even allow you to copy their music,that way it does stop the pro copyiers and rougue burners from making money..

who whingers the most the artist or the record companys?

If i ever record a song ...Ill post it in here you can all make 20 copys if you want, 20 each for all i care..Id be pleased if there 20 who like us enough to copy our song 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)


Tezza

[Franceyne]

:lol: Now you know why Glenn calls me The Sarge! :lol: :lol: 8)

Tezza - imagine being a musician that had battled for ten or fifteen years to make a name for themselves in the music industry only to have eveyone steal the recordings of the music for their own use - I know of quite a few artists that are very upset about people stealing their livelihood.

So....Who's next with their Sunday report???


Sorry for the hijack Tully

[Cornonthecob]

I'd be buggered! Who is going to believe that my copied cd's were in fact copied from cassettes that I brought over the years (we're talking a few hundred!)...though the quality isn't as good as a new cd.

[Franceyne]

They will believe you because you are honest and whats more the sound quality will be a dead give away Cobber :lol:

[Tezza]

Yep I understand your feelings Fran....its a shame for them.i mean that.

I find it hard to say how i feel about this.But heck werte talking Planet earth here with Humans in charge.Its been corupted by the money makers anyways.the record producers probly hate having to pay commisions anyways :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 8)

Thats all Im saying ..dont want to wear out my edit button by sayiong anything else.....id hte to annoy anymore even though its a new wek again..i prommised myself id be a good boy this week. :( :( :( :( :( 8) 8) 8)

Tezza

[Tezza]

Just for those who read my post yesterday bout watching my team on the computer Wll we beat that other team :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Im happy today ..dont spoil it 8) 8)

Tezza

[Franceyne]

You could never annoy me Tezza - you have an opinion and if I don't want to hear it I want read it...but more likely I'll read it and ask you why and then tell you my opinion :lol:

You see a scale of people, artist and their supporting companies - it is all just stealing to me...most of the bands I listen to are not signed to major labels but to small independant labels - it is underground and the money I spend goes directly towards them producing more of the music that I enjoy.

Healthy discussion Tezza, no need to give that edit button a work out and I'm overjoyed that you are happy - may your team always win!

:D

[Richard on Maui]

Whoops. I didn't mean to be a dobber Christopher, I really thought it was cool how brazen you are.
Actually, I don't have a problem with downloading art or anything else off of the internet.
I wrote to Bill once suggesting that he put his work on the net for a free download {share the surplus?} but either he didn't get it or didn't feel that it warranted a response. Anyway, last time I looked, Tagari wasn't offering a free online version of the Designers Manual, more is the pity. Just the size and weight, let alone the price is a significant obstacle to more people reading and the earth benefiting from that book. Maybe I should learn how to make PDF files and offer my services to Bill and Lisa and put it down in my diploma app. as the media part...
While I can see the merit in your argument Franceyne, I just don't buy it, sorry for the pun... Are artists going to starve if we stop buying albums? Then how come it is mostly poor, starving artists that offer their music as free download and rich multinational corporations that don't, and prosecute people who fileshare? Intellectual property is a big scam. Art doesn't need to be another commodity.
I think that your comparison to someone stealing Chris's solar panels is a bit off the mark. Perhaps if Chris had stolen Dread Zep's drumkit, maybe you would have a point. Anyway, didn't Dread Zep steal all their riffs from Jimmy Page?
Just my humble opinions, of course.

[Cornonthecob]

Think I'll go sit in the corner under a big umbrella!

[Franceyne]

Hey there Richard,

As I said to Tezza - it is all just stealing to me...most of the bands I listen to are not signed to major labels but to small independant labels - it is underground and the money I spend goes directly towards them producing more of the music that I enjoy.

For these bands the selling of their records is their bread and butter. They may not starve - but they may not be able to afford to produce anymore records either because they have had to go out and secure employment elsewhere to pay their rent.

I'm not into making one set of morals for one person just to dismiss them for the other because they have more money. I prefer to choose who I support.

But it is not just about money - when Glenn's art was used in a manner that was not requested of him nor accredited to him it leaves you feeling a little used and mistrusting. They are not nice feelings.

If you go far back enough even Jimmy Page stole the riffs - but it is what you do with them that grab people by the ears sells them your recordings.

[heuristics]

To pick up on the last few points in Richard's post, paticularly re Bill and his designer manual:

I am one of the many who would gladly pay a premium, or well above “fair market price” for a legitimate copy of Bill's "Global Gardener" TV series, plus his other one, “In Fear of Falling Food”. But, from what I can glean from the posts some months back, the copyright holder got burnt badly by permie people who all pirated his videos when they were first released some years ago. Now, it seems, he has no interest in re-releasing the material because not only is there no profit-motive incentive for him to do so, he is in fear of losing money. Thus the resource is thus no longer renewable.
Of course the permie people who actually managed to get their hands on this original material and pirate it for friends and family have all faded away, and now it is not possible to obtain this material from either them, or the original energy source. A salutary lesson surely. It was so-called permie people themselves who created an unsustainable system – ie the owner of the material could not afford to continue to give it away for nothing. There was a cost to be incurred for his time materials and creative energy, and this was not respected.

From what I understand, profits from Bills designer manual have been used to fund teaching permaculture projects across the globe. A “by example” demonstration of permaculture's third ethic, “distribution of surplus”. Also, Bill's manual, by all standards, is an inspirational work of genius. What price, what value, on genius? . Having it downloadable would theoretically make it more widely available, but perhaps not more widely valued. It is a strange truth often observed (see earthbound + other's posts of some weeks back) that people rarely value that which they have acquired easily or cheaply or at no cost.
Bill has expertly modelled how to deal with this issue in a sustainable way. He sells his products (books, courses) at a fair price for the inputs that have gone into their creation, and distributes the surplus. He does not give away his products for free, and, he says, he has been forced to take action against those who sought to inappropriately acquired (steal) his work.
OK, the music industry (like so much other “industry”) is not interested in distributing the surplus. Herein lies the ethical challenge to the individual. Do you steal something because the “system” is “corrupt” and not observing the principle of sustainability by distributing surplus?
Coles and Woolworths – Bunnings et al? Gosh, under that mindset I would never see myself paying for anything ever again, as these conglomerates are certainly the very antithesis of sustainability. I think their system is called “capitalism”, “market forces” “globalism” or “the way things are”.

[Richard on Maui]

So, where does the problem lie here, with the ownership or the piracy?
I personally believe that we need to change how we value things. Until we get over the stumbling block of equating dollars with sense we are all well and truly *#$!ed.

[~Tullymoor~]

When I logged in and saw THREE pages for this thread I thought "OoooAhhh, that was a successful thread, I'll have to remember to do a Sunday Report every Sunday night"....then I read through it!!!
LMAO!!! I should have known. You all lost the plot :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Franceyne]

I did try to get it back on track Tully :lol:

But somehow in the end we all seem to be talking different things...I don't think a little underground band in Germany whose art I value is going to trade me their cds for my surplus broad beans...and that is if they have surplus cds....normally you have to search for the cds and because they are self producers the cd run numbers are small...nor are those cds going to be sold through a large chain music store.

We need some fluff I think :wink:

[Cornonthecob]

~Some pigs can fly but all pigs enjoy sandwiches~

some people need help!

:P

[Richard on Maui]

Yeah, Tully, I think it was your thread about how to kill off weeds that (d)evolved into a fiery discussion about the rights and wrongs a couple of weeks back...
Well, sorry.
But C'mon! They dump piles and piles of cd's into landfills! It is so cheap to record and distribute music now, that there is no need for it to be a profit making enterprise. You simply don't need to charge money for music in order to keep making music. You already have your computer for email, and it created enough toxicity that the least you can do is use it to create some nice tunes, and then share them around.

Mollison's work surely would be more valuable if it was read/seen more widely? Give it away, NOW! You can't seriously expect me to believe that it is more efficient for everyone to give Bill $85 per book, so that he can what, go do the same course again for people in the third world? or perhaps Melbourne? Put the damn course on line and stop flying around in airplanes, which produce more greenhouse in one flight than anyone could hope to sequester by tree planting in years.
He was actually talking on the radio the other day about how he would like to see his courses aired on the ABC, but that he doubted the ABC would do it. I think that is what he was on about, anyway. I believe that the recent course he did with Geoff was recorded. Of course, there is nothing stopping the Permaculture Institute from putting it all online, for free. To me, that ethic would be a whole lot more credible if they did.

Just my humble opinions, of course.

[~Tullymoor~]

Cornonthecobberdiggerbuddy...you have *no* idea :lol: :twisted:

Franceyne....it's ok, ALL our threads seem to turn to other stuff.
Mainly, if you'll note, when PwCw the big nong posts!!!! HE started it this time and I am NO WAY paying again for solicitors for foolish court cases. Bloody litigation-happy Yanks!! :lol:

Dear Dick on a Big Island....I know <sigh> it matters nought what I post, it can be the most benign of subjects, but still it turns into the soft and smelly filling in a pig's sandwich. :D

[christopher]

Actuall, Tullymoor (QotF, Hot, PoPP, AoC (D) :love7: ), all I did was mention what I did today, which, among other things (well, not too much other things) included some theft of intellectual property. Other than my guilt in stealing, I have to plead innocent of all other charges, especially turning this thread to, um, smelly sandwich fillings. Oooh, I hate to point this out, but..... the real culprit would be, (gulp), >FRANCEYNE<!

If you go making unsubstantiated charges against me, again, it's gonna cost you another 100 grams of coffee!

Anyway, to prove what a big hearted yank I am, I'll avoid taking this to litigation. As you saw, I have the judge and jury wrapped up tight. And, you, with your axe, you are the executioner!

However, I think Richard has a point. Something in your posting style really incites silliness. Anyone remember the guy who complained about minutia? Thats, in part, subject, of course to other participants, certainly YOUR falt, Tullymoor! Opening a whole thread about minutia? And inciting my cyber flirtation (really can't help myself there....)! Someone objected to that, too!

Tullymoor, I am nothing but clay in your hands! All of the problems here are my inability to react as a mature person to you. You nurture my inner 12 year old.....

Much love to you,

Pw Cw :love7:

[earthbound]

I don't imagine that you go to work each day without expecting to be paid for it Richard so why should a musician.....?

Those people that destroy huge piles of CD's are generally the big corporations, not the little guys who are just trying to make a living.....

If people are expected to give their work away for nothing how are they meant to survive... I'm not sure I understand exactly where your coming from when you say that
You simply don't need to charge money for music in order to keep making music OK, no you don't need to charge for it but how are you meant to pay for a roof over your head and feed and cloth yourself. You'd have to give up the music and go and do paid work to support yourself, and then you don't have the time to make music.

Fair enough it would be great if you can trade your music for food, clothes etc, or use a LETS scheme... But to say that intelectual and artistic property should be given away seems a bit purist, and unrealistic in todays commercial world... Why should music be any different to someone who produces food, or clothing, or a builder, is it any less valuable.?

[Tezza]

Go Ricky Go Ricky Go Ricky.....I agre with Ricky,but i also agree with the other sides (Franceyne)...and also to a degree with my fishmate joel..

I see the perfect world idea of both sides,

the world thats not dominated by finacial affairs is the world i want....

Its not what we should ask our world....Its what we can do for Our World
(borrowed from JFK altered by TJH


Tezza

[heuristics]

Douglas Barnes and Scotty Meister, Forget the Sunday report boys, what's the goss on your Saturday night?

Scott A. Meister wrote:
It (tinnitus) usually occures more after I've had a night of beer-drinking with the boys...


DEJBarnes wrote: He He! You just wait until next Saturday...

BTW, are we going to Beardo's?

[Douglas J.E. Barnes]

Douglas Barnes and Scotty Meister, Forget the Sunday report boys, what's the goss on your Saturday night?

A sayonara party for a friend who is leaving Japan for good.

[murray]

hi franceyne

>It is a shame that people don't even think about electronic theft as stealing.
>We have friends that have offered to burn us cd's of music that we like,
>music that they have got from the internet - these same people get a little
>toey when we refuse the cd and tell them that we will buy the cd and
>support the band - these people also wonder why bands don't tour Australia
>- they don't have record sales to justify a tour because people are stealing
>the music instead of buying it - 'tis all very silly.

this debate is rather personal to me as i write and perform music and i believe that downloading is an issue every artist needs to think through for themselves.

for my part, it's not necessarily evil.

i can see how some people view downloading of music (or any kind of content) as stealing.. but as an artist myself... if it's a choice between my music getting heard and not getting heard, i'll go for getting heard every single time...

even if it means i don't get paid for my content.

i know plenty of authors who have made their books available free online, and have in turn generated so many more readers for their printed versions than they would have by relying on a big publishing company. (don't we all prefer the real thing over reading on a screen? i know i do.. and buy my favorite books so i can actually read them and carry them with me)..

i have tried to convince other authors to put their stuff online for free.. and they say, 'but i'm afraid people will photocopy them and hand them out on street corners.'

i tell them that it seems to have worked out well for Jesus... :)

i tell them, as an artist, the more people listening to or reading what i create, the better.

i have recently put together a CD (http://www.spirithouse.com.au/music/one.php?name=Spirit%20House%20CD-%20ONE) with a friend who owns a restaurant. we had literally dozens of tracks we wanted to put on the album, but sadly, could only afford to license 11. what about the other 60-80 tracks unavailable in australia that nobody will ever hear?

we BEGGED the record companies involved to allow us to offer legal downloads of all these wonderful tracks. we reasoned that we could direct buyers of our CD and visitors to our website a choice of all that extra music that they could browse & purchase.

none of them would even consider it and you know what? i'm betting that most of the artists involved would have loved to have their music on our legal downloads page.

and the irony: most of the music we ended up putting on our album we had to download illegally to begin with, since none of it was available in australia.

so - i guess what i'm saying is:

1. the world isn't black and white with regard to this issue

2. not all downloading is stealing

3. not all stealing is bad for the artist

4. the current system is severely broken and until major labels offer easy legal music downloads, people will keep doing it illegally.

5. i encourage people to bypass labels, download music legally if they can, illegally if they can't, but always try to find a way to support the artist if possible.

peace 8)

[Tezza]

Hmmmmm A sort of permaculture Rogers ana Muzzastein...

Lennon/Muzza.........A Tv show the Muzza,s


What style you write Muzza,maybe you could write the Permie Bands First Song........."Im a Typing For a Bulliten Board"

Or get together with corncob and Write "Sgt Muzzas Lonly permaculturists band" 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Tezza

[heuristics]

A timely piece of breaking news, relevant to numerous posts here:

From the Ninensm home page:

In pursuit of Kazaa

Sunday, November 6, 2005
"It tells the legitimate industry it's time to get into the space and robustly take up the market space from the illegal operations, and it tells the illegal operations that the rort's over."


The global music industry's pursuit of the file-sharing company Kazaa could have come straight from a novel, with undercover operatives and surveillance videos gathering key evidence. The investigation led to a landmark Federal Court decision in Australia which effectively banned Internet music piracy. National Nine News reporter Daniel Street pursued the story here and in the UK.

MICHAEL SPECK, copyright investigator: This was about making the online space a safe and secure place for consumers, and a safe and secure place for legitimate businesses, who were looking towards the internet, as a place where they could sell music, to consumers.

DANIEL STREET: As Investigator Michael Speck, and a high powered team of specialist lawyers prepared to go Sydney's Federal Court, they knew there was a lot at stake. It was the end of a two year global investigation and literally billions of dollars rested on the upcoming decision.
SPECK: I felt confident that if the court gave it due regard that Kazaa would be found to be no more than a business that ran on copyright infringement, ran on the work of other people. It would be exposed not as a revolution, just as a rort.

STREET: Justice Murray Wilcox didn't call Kazaa a rort, in his judgment, but he did find a Sydney-based company, Sharman Networks, and five other respondents behind Kazaa, had traded songs illegally under the Australian Copyright Act.

Justice MURRAY WILCOX: "…stated that Kazaa wa used for 79 per cent of worldwide, peer to peer file sharing activities…"

SPECK: The Kazaa people were profiting from 270-million plus downloads each month of somebody else's work, that they never asked for, never paid for, the money just poured into their pockets and disappeared through tax havens like Vanuatu.

STREET: Paul Buchanan is owner of Soundbuzz, one of 320 legitimate online providers selling music on the World Wide Web. So Paul, if I want to download a song from Online, how do I go about it?

PAUL BUCHANAN, Soundbuzz: It's a very straight forward process, you first have to log in and then it's a matter of making a choice really of what song you like.

STREET: What about Pete Murray?

BUCHANAN: Ok, there's Stones there, Missy Higgens, but we can go for Pete Murray, have a listen to the song, make sure that's the one you want, and make a choice, which is simply a matter of clicking on the buy button, that then goes into your shopping cart and away you go to the checkout, put down your credit card, and you start to download the song.

STREET: But Kazaa was offering songs for free.

BUCHANAN: Yes, and the artists weren't getting paid for those songs, for those acquisitions of songs.

STREET: The difference between many legitimate operators and Kazaa is that Kazaa is a peer to peer file sharing network. Everyone who downloads Kazaa makes their personal music libraries on their home computer available to anyone else. So, if you want a song, you just have to key in the words and the software will locate someone with it and download it to your computer.

STREET: How did Kazaa make its money if they're saying that the music's freely available?

SPECK: They made their money from advertising, and spyware…

STREET: What's spyware?

SPECK: Spyware is the capacity to identify the activity of the computer. It's another way of gleaning internet market intelligence, quite a valuable product when you consider that these people had some 320-million plus subscribers at any given time. We know that they used in the vicinity of three-billion dollars worth of somebody else's music to run their business that they didn't pay for.

STREET: It was, according the the industry, simply music theft on an inconceivable scale... and the industry had to stop it. The way to do it was to take it to the courts, but which court and and in which country? Kazaa had a quicksilver corporate structure, spanning many countries and involving many companies. The music industry gave Michael Speck and a team of lawyers a huge budget to track Kazaa down… with a brief, basically to find a place to sue in.

SPECK: We started quite simply by trying to pull apart the strands of the corporate structure. We found something like 120 companies in the structure, around the world. We had investigators travel to most of the places where Kazaa companies could be identified.

STREET: Such as?

SPECK: Northern Europe, Vanuatu in particular, the United States, the United Kingdom. For it to effectively prosecuted, the structure had to be reversed engineered effectively. The corporate structure was a complex one designed to avoid anyone ever discovering who was behind it.

STREET: Kazaa was co-founded by Nicholas Zennstrom, who recently sold the Skpe internet phone business to E-bay for a staggering 2.6 billion dollars. But Zenstrom and his business partner sold Kazaa back in 2002, when the music industry in the United States was trying to shut it down, as it did with the online music business, Napster. So, Michael Speck and his team of investigators searched the globe for clues to Kazaa's corporate structure, incredibly their search ended up, in Cremorne, on Sydney's lower North Shore… this is Kazza's world headquarters. Zennstrom had sold the business to Sharman Networks, and linked to that company were two Sydney high-flyers, Nicki Hemming and Kevin Burmeister. Hemming had come from Britain in the 90s to sell software for Richard Branson's Virgin Interactive computer games. Burmeister had himself made a fortune out of computer games. Little did they know it, but they were under constant surveillance by the music industry's investigators.

STREET: Why did you need to film them playing golf and putting out garbage, walking down the street?

SPECK: We were looking for some point that would tell us who was running Kazaa, where the money was going, because people must have made hundreds of millions of dollars. It's all gone. The music industry demonstrated how serious it is today, in trying to crack down on music piracy over the internet…"

STREET: These raids, authorised by the Federal Court, provided vital information to begin the landmark prosecution against Kazaa.

SPECK: There can be no doubt that the Kazaa people were leap-frogging territories, avoiding prosecution and thought they'd be safe in Australia. This was a test of the Australian judicial system's capacity to deal with new technology, I am proud to say the court was up to it, it was up to the technology, it was up to a complex and complicated scam, it was up to the concerted offence of that scam and it brought down a well considered judgement which I think will ring loud in the ears of pirates around the world.

STREET: While the judge did not shut down Kazaa, he gave it until the end of November to put in filters to stop the downloading of pirated music. But the most important thing he did was allow the music industry to claim damages - and that could indeed be the killer blow to the music pirates.

JOHN KENNEDY, International Federation of the Phonographic Industry: It's been a long road, it's been an expensive road, not only our rights have been infringed but the rights of artists and songwriters have been infringed, and there has to be compensation for that.

STREET: When you say expensive, how expensive?

KENNEDY: Millions of dollars. No piece of litigation is cheap.

STREET: Could you put a figure on what this has cost the music industry, Kazaa?

KENNEDY: Many millions of dollars, but at the end of the day, it's been worth every cent.

STREET: Watching the judgement closely from London was John Kennedy the boss IFPI, the record industry's global peak body.

KENNEDY: Well this was the first time a case such as this had gone to full trial. There'd been Napster hearings in the USA, there had been the Grokster hearings in the USA where it was sent back to the courts below to reconsider the matter. This was a full blown trial with evidence from both sides, and this was a fully considered hearing with a considered and sensible judgement.

SPECK: This judgement is a template, or a road map for both the legitimate and illegitimate industry. It tells the legitimate industry it's time to get into the space and robustly take up the market space from the illegal operations, and it tells the illegal operations that the rort's over.

[Tezza]

Sounds to me that Someone, somewhere dont like loosing money,
eg The government tax collectors,..Funny how some people get so agitated over money aint it........Pity the financial resorses dont go to the poor,
instead of the gready parasites who make sure they get their money.....

Lets get back to the old ways,

As Pink Floyd sing "money, who gives a dam"

yet its becomming a theme song for a making money segment in the media..

These financial parasites probly dont know the difference from a semi colon to a bodily colon or a crotchett from a rachett....

Everything should be free, Again...".Free as a Bird"

Tezza

[murray]

if you'd like to hear a song i wrote together with a friend (who's the singer), you can grab this:
http://207.21.197.146/Okay.mp3

(i'm on guitar in this track)

[Franceyne]

Thank you for sharing your views and music Murray - it is a lovely track, a great maturity and very pleasant to listen to - it would be quite at home coming out of the speakers in one of the Castlemaine cafes out my way :D

[murray]

thanks franceyne. nice of you to say. :D

[Cornonthecob]

Cool tune...reminds me of someone but can't think who? :)

[Tezza]

Nice Song Nice guitar Player.Not sure on the voices names but sure I know them somewhere

Who are they anyone famous?

Tezza

[murray]

nobody famous. we're just 3 idiots recording songs for fun.

[Tezza]

Did i load the wrong song down muzza or do u wear tight jeans

Tezza

[baldcat]

Ok so I'm sure 3 chooks can fix this....

[baldcat]

Well I can't let Muzza just post his stuff willy nilly so here are acouple of beta of my own..
Me on guitar and vocals, Pete Williamson Lead and co writer (Nephew you to John) and guitarist for Pete Murray..

http://www.worldpartypro.com/downloads/FarorNear.mp3
http://www.worldpartypro.com/downloads/Lisa.mp3
http://www.worldpartypro.com/downloads/SweetTalking.mp3
http://www.worldpartypro.com/downloads/02Falling.mp3
http://www.worldpartypro.com/downloads/01Falling.mp3 (professional recording proformed by Venus Eclipse (now defuct)

*** WARNING - Levels to vary and there are bum notes.. Listen at your own risk :) :rock:

PS Sorry Fran no thrashing METAL :thefinger: :headbang: Pete is a bit of a softie :hippy2:

[Tezza]

Hey man this stuff is good i love the first still going thru the list

Tezza

[Tamandco]

I've just read trough this thread, so am a bit behind the discussion.

Murray, love the album 'Spirit House', that your cafe friend is releasing soon. Would certainly add that one to my collection. In fact, I'd love to give it to one of my best friends for her birthday as I know she'd love it.

The song with you on guitar reminds me a bit of Frente! (I used to work with Simon's brother, Matthew)

Tam