Please read this, In need info that could help me; in dire need of Help...

[entheopermafuture]

Hello, I am very young Permaculture enthusiast, My only goal, drive and ambition ever since I discovered the beauty behind the concept of permaculture, how well it fulfilled and coincided with my Kropotkinist ideals, how much I wish to live sustainably and especially how much I wish to live without economically supporting the terrible government in which i currently reside (America) by paying taxes I would feel like a evil person doing so.

My only goal since that moment I discovered permaculture has been to go to college to study permaculture and work, (possibly as an illegal job as to not pay income taxes but only if no one wants to hire my long haired self...) until I had
enough money for the land and trees and plants necessary to maintain myself by creating a "food forest" as Geoff put it in his videos,

Initially i believed that my parents would pay for college and that I would be able to return to their house while I worked for however long It took for me to fund my system to get self sufficient,

I figured I had all four years of college to decide exactly where, but I have been thinking either somewhere in the southwest United States South America, or maybe Australia...
and was planning on starting about 15 trees and keeping them in pots this year as soon as the snow melted to get started...
Basically my Life plan was directly centered around becoming Self sufficient; then afterwards joining one of the many Permie organizations and helping design for people in need of food...

That is what I consider the only possible outcome for my life if I have anything to do with it, and that doesn't seem unrealistic does it??

Basically I am very sure that Permaculture is the life style that I am going to live, It is the solution to all of the problems that I find with the life style of my parents and the people around me. It has brought me hope and completely devoured my interest. Outside of the various spirituality books I need to finish before I can fully devote to studying permaculture, I have spent all the time I have had since I found out about it, Learning about it...

PS. ( I had no desire to come to this forum and start posting untill I had finished Bill Mollisons book... but the following will explain why I came earlier then that; I have read parts of it but I have many other books that are more apply-able to my life right now that I need to finish before I get on too it and then to devoting my self to learning permaculture fully)

Now, for why I am here and why I need Help...

The described above description of myself is no longer accurate...
Well, Mostly it is except for a critical detail, The Parents paying for college part and the parents allowing me back into their house while I work part is no longer there...

Actually my parents will not allow me back into the house after I turn 18, I have a few short term places of dwelling for the time being but they are not permanent and I have been trying so hard to get a job but no leads have been found. (I guess I look too much like a god dam hippie) combined with no one is hiring in my are especially kids because of the economic situation...


Basically what I am looking for Is, A permaculture community or sustainable community or school where I can
A. Learn to design
B. Doesn't cost the money that I do not have Because I have none.
C. Has a place for me to sleep
D. will let me eat from their sustainable garden...

I'm thinking like

a sustainable community that is open to allowing apprentices...

A sustainable community that is open to new members...

A free permaculture design school that has some kind of free place of dwelling built in (ideal but sounds kind of unrealistic)


I am willing to work 10 hours a day any job that will supply me food
but I would prefer to be learning permaculture in the process and not be supporting the government unless necessary (and I have deemed it necessary to find a job and yet no luck...)

Anything I am very desperate...

Any Ideas guys? My rich friend who just got 100 grand for his 18th birthday is going on a road trip this summer to where ever he wants and has offered me a ride to any place in the country that would offer a situation like this...

I am off to run another search on the internet for options,
I have applied for an work exchange apprentice-ship at Dancing rabbit eco-community
but have yet to hear back from them... This will be a good option for the summer if I get accepted but then I don't know what happens afterward.
I am open to any suggestions


There is no chance of my parents changing there mind my Dad is a pro facist, racist, neo con who hates me for not hating like he does...

oh, yeah and I am in America...
Should I bring this to another forum, It seemed like this was the most trafficked forum with the most recourses and it seemed like there where enough Americans here...

[Young Permy Couple]

Basically what I am looking for Is, A permaculture community or sustainable community or school where I can
A. Learn to design
B. Doesn't cost the money that I do not have Because I have none.
C. Has a place for me to sleep
D. will let me eat from their sustainable garden...

I'm thinking like

a sustainable community that is open to allowing apprentices...

A sustainable community that is open to new members...

A free permaculture design school that has some kind of free place of dwelling built in (ideal but sounds kind of unrealistic)


I am willing to work 10 hours a day any job that will supply me food
but I would prefer to be learning permaculture in the process and not be supporting the government unless necessary (and I have deemed it necessary to find a job and yet no luck...)


The closest thing to what you are describing is WWOOFing. Willing Workers on Organic Farms also known as World Wide Opportunities on Organic Farms. You can find a link on the home page here or go to wwoof.org

Wwoofing is: in return for volunteer help, WWOOF hosts offer food, accommodation and opportunities to learn about organic lifestyles.

Personally, if I was in America, I'd head over to Polyface Farm in Virginia. Joel Salatin and his family run a farm there. He has written several books, one of which is called 'Everything I want to do is Illegal' which sounds like something you might enjoy! ;-) Joel and his son are a wealth of knowledge and I'd contact them in regard to wwoofing or the like on the farm. Check him out on Youtube. You are bound to find several willing to take you on and you could probably go from one to another gathering different people perspectives as every permaculture site is vastly different.

Good luck.

Young Permy Couple

[pebble]

Yes, go woofing. You can do college later is you want once you have learned how to make a living. Salatin is awesome, and there are many other great permie places in the US. Check out Paul Wheaton's youtube channel for the video on what makes a good woofer.

While I agree your government is fairly evil, paying taxes is part of the process of being human at this time. It's also a sign of goodwill to the other humans you share your land with - that you are willing to help other people not just yourself. Taxes also pay for things you use, so unless you are willing to stop using all those things it doesn't really make sense. Get jobs, pay taxes, and use that to create a permie world.

[Lorin]

Entheopermafuture,
I am very sympathetic to your plight. I'm a bit older than you (34). And while I no longer have long hair, I'm also a big fan of Kropotkin, entheongens and all the god-damn-hippie trappings. It's also my desire to make a living doing something similar to what you're wanting to do. I spent about 11 years in the video production field until my job evaporated last spring. I've had a few big freelance jobs since then. But for this year, I've been nearly completely unemployed. Luckily I have a pretty awesome wife who doesn't kick me out until I find a job, like your fascist dad. I've done some advertising to the suburbanites here to install organic vegetable gardens. I did a couple last year. Don't know if I'll get enough this spring to make it a business. We'll see. But let me encourage you by saying that people like us, looking to make their living in sustainable food production or environmental sciences - we're on the right side of history. There's so much shit going on behind the scenes right now in this country. The US hyperinflation has started. The sleeping sheep have no idea what's about to hit them. This country is going to need people like us very soon - lots of us. So take heart.

The program mentioned by the other users above may be your best bet. However, I would also mention a place a little south of me in Summertown TN. "The Farm" (http://www.thefarm.org/) was started back in the 60's as a kind of hippie commune. Today they offer a extensive courses on permaculture at the ecovillage training center. You live, eat and learn there, and if you can't afford to rent a cabin, they offer you the option to camp. If permaculture is really what you want to do, I would seriously look into getting your training here, over college. I worked with colleges and universities for many years at my job, and know the value of a good liberal arts education. I value the education I received at my college. However, in many ways I feel that the education I received after college was far more valuable. This is when my mind was unbridled by papers, exams and college reading lists, and I could explore my interests through the books that stimulated me intellectually. (Certainly, Kropotkin was never on any syllabi at my school!) If I had been as self-directed at your age, I probably could have skipped college. This society tells you that your worth is determined by your degree. But the degree is just a piece of paper. Show yourself to be intelligent, committed and capable and you can find your way in this world without one. Best of luck.

[entheopermafuture]

Woofing looks like a great bet to keep me alive until i find a means of personal sustainability and a delicious learning recource. I have applied to various farms here in the US.

"While I agree your government is fairly evil, paying taxes is part of the process of being human at this time. It's also a sign of goodwill to the other humans you share your land with - that you are willing to help other people not just yourself. Taxes also pay for things you use, so unless you are willing to stop using all those things it doesn't really make sense. Get jobs, pay taxes, and use that to create a Permie world."

I am very busy at the moment, so I do not have time right now to fully explain the ridiculous immorality of forced redistribution of labor time credit to counterproductive means, more often then less with the sole incentive of profit; depending on case to case to the advantage of someone somewhere and rarely the general public. Not to mention that forced redistribution of labor time credit alone can be easily defined as a form of thievery (FORCED removal of possession)
Not to mention many of the people I unwillingly share my land with have been sole-less, unintelligent cogz. That have a skewed concept of value. They are worthless waste. Defiantly does not make scene to have my money stolen in order to support them...

As for the things that I use that are provided by taxes; I am very much willing and prefer by far not use any at all .
Any instance in which I am forced to utilize them is because I am required to for some reason. I can't understand which of them are at all beneficial or why one would think that someone would not be willing to do without any of them.


"The US hyperinflation has started"

Indeed. Now let us hope with all of our hearts that Kropotkin was correct with what happens next. However I would not depend on it or even expect it. He did not foresee the realities that became clearer to Aldous Huxley and George Orwell, because they did not as much exist in the time of his life.